Irish women will be heard (trending)

[GrainneMhaol]

Hi everyone. #WeWillBeHeard is trending on twitter in Ireland. It is in reponse to Amnesty International, the National Women's Council of Ireland and other major NGO's calling for people who "defend biology" or who are gender critical to be disenfranchised.

Their words: "..Let us say unequivocally that the statements of newly launched organisations that seek to defend biology or fight gender identity and expression do not represent the wider LGBTI+ community nor feminists in Ireland... We call on media, and politicians to no longer provide legitimate representation for those that share bigoted beliefs."

This is a thread with pictures and the hastag which is trending

twitter.com/TCDFFT/status/1331208440971137024?s=19

A response letter from The Countess didn't fight for this thecountessdidntfightforthis.com/we-will-be-heard/

And an archived copy of the original ridiculous letter they are replying to (usual tropes about being far right etc) archive.is/glPXl#selection-1561.0-1561.202

There was a lot of caveating – in terms of the "most oppressed" there was that bit about in different ways in different times and cultures?

To me, that said TW of colour being murdered in Brazil should not be conflated with misgendering in Ireland/UK. But if you weren't already informed, how bad would you think the problems are here?

...and Una, since we're on the subject of the Irish Times.

twitter.com/UnaMullally/status/1333730455003262977?s=19

@MadamBatty

FOT article Appearing now on IT Facebook page. It would be great to hear some decent options & not the usual Be Kind shite. I should be working but will visit later.

Because its a subscribers only post, a lot of people will just read what others write about it on social media rather than the substance of it itself.

Hes trending on twitter behind Penneys but majority of the tweets just seem to be by people outraged that he even dared to write something on the subject

Dear God, the is that really the fourth most popular item on Twitter in Ireland? Twitter truly is a parallel universe from the real lives of Irish people.

Also, the comments section in the IT seems to be disabled for the article (I had popped on to comment).

Gotta love Stella O'Malley's style. This really does go for the Beeb and others too!! While the Irish Times is very welcome to this debate, may I be so bold as to advise "If someone says it's raining & another person says it's dry. It's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the fucking window and find out which is true."

@Winesalot

Gotta love Stella O'Malley's style. This really does go for the Beeb and others too!! While the Irish Times is very welcome to this debate, may I be so bold as to advise "If someone says it's raining & another person says it's dry. It's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the fucking window and find out which is true."

Oh I missed that - truly quotable, might even become a classic!!!

And that is what I was trying to say upthread (with less style ) this is not a two sided debate (sex as biology) and sex protected rights (which we do not even have in Ireland thanks to stupid ambiguous wording which has been seized on by the GRA activists to erode what few rights we had).

That quote isn't original to Stella - it's been doing the rounds for a while.

The FOT piece is so mild and yet it's getting an absolutely deranged response on Irish Twitter. Very telling.

@RoyalCorgi

That quote isn't original to Stella - it's been doing the rounds for a while.

Thanks Corgi, still a great quote. I never can get my head around the need for balanced debate - when there is either a right or wrong answer (like does the earth move around the sun or does the sun move around the earth).

Just waded through the latest on Irish twitter. I find the repeated calls not to import the British terf wars, in response to such a mild article, very telling. It translates to - do not write about this issue, do not discuss this issue, do not even think about this issue. Because we all know what will happen when the general public start thinking about what's going on.

@Annasgirl

Also, the comments section in the IT seems to be disabled for the article (I had popped on to comment).

I was wondering if the comments were turned off after the fact. When I read it first thing the comments bubble on the top right said 43 but later I couldn't access the comments area and none were appearing below the line.

I loved Stella's series of tweets and that sign off is always perfect.

Does anyone remember FOT dipping a toe into this in the last year or so? I have a vague memory of a disappointing article before but I can't find it. If my hazy memory is right, this article, while not perfect is a step in the right direction.

Ooh yes you're right, there was a comment from him previously.

Does anyone remember FOT dipping a toe into this in the last year or so? I have a vague memory of a disappointing article before but I can't find it. If my hazy memory is right, this article, while not perfect is a step in the right direction

Yes, I do. But I can't remember what was in it exactly, but on foot of it I was not surprised to see today's offering. Baby steps. (Was it possibly at the time of John Boyne's crucifixion for rejecting the term Cis?)

Flywheel, you're right. This is a point I've been struggling to articulate for a while and I've just seen another exchange on twitter that I thought was excellent

twitter.com/faintlyfalling/status/1333819430225240069?s=20

Surely if you scratch the surface the likes of Teni, BelongTo and the other LGBT organizations have been inspired, influenced, even trained by and received moral support from their own British counterparts (Stonewall, GI, trans media watch etc etc) to exactly the same extent as Irish feminists have from ours?

Isn't it likely that porousness extends to staff and volunteers who have previously worked or done activism in the UK and Silicon Valley or wherever? People have always come and gone from Ireland bringing new ideas and ideologies with them.

@3timeslucky

Does anyone remember FOT dipping a toe into this in the last year or so? I have a vague memory of a disappointing article before but I can't find it. If my hazy memory is right, this article, while not perfect is a step in the right direction

Yes, I do. But I can't remember what was in it exactly, but on foot of it I was not surprised to see today's offering. Baby steps. (Was it possibly at the time of John Boyne's crucifixion for rejecting the term Cis?)

Yes! It had the terrible cringeworthy headline of 'I am a cis man with cis privilege' but had good points in there, including not forcing the term 'cis' on people, and having a go at competitive victimhood.

TENI's reaction to the Keira Bell ruling is exactly what I would have expected, instead of any introspection about the model they have been promoting they're sad its been dealt a blow but are sticking wiht the same strategy.

Just like mermaids they should be calling for robust evidence based treatments, talk therapy etc but instead just like mermaids want to just affirm and stick their head in the sand about what this approach and drugs do

They won't want to admit they were wrong in supporting this pathway, not when Self ID for under 18s is being introduced.
They won't want people wondering if maybe the "TERFs"
had a point after all.

Lone time lurker to these pages, first time poster. I’m a female academic in an Irish university. I’ve been following debates on the trans issue for some time but now that it’s come home it’s putting a knot in my stomach every time I see a friend, family member or colleague posting something like “trans women are women” which I would be absolutely hounded for for challenging. The university president has recently been pushing a doctrinal set of values in the “be kind” frame, which includes supporting the university and not being confrontational. Just wanted to post here because I’m getting stressed about it, you lot will know how I feel and I can’t say much IRL.

afloat

I understand how you feel afloat

afloat. The universities are particularly bad. It's got to the stage where it looks like people are stupider coming out than when they went in and I hope my kids don't do arts.

(Sorry, that sounded really rude! But I've seen some of the worst of this madness come from those with multiple degrees.)

@afloat I hear you.

Seeing some very educated and very clever people, particularly women, spouting the catchphrases the past while. I just wish they would take a moment to consider and reflect. For all that people are told to 'educate themselves', the ones who have really thought about it inevitably end up on the 'wrong' side (because anything other than total compliance means being denounced, even if it is sympathetic, kind and compassionate).

It's so hard to know that bringing this up with friends and colleagues is something that will almost never go well. The demonising of anything other than the TWAW mantra is depressing.