Irish women will be heard (trending)

[GrainneMhaol]

Hi everyone. #WeWillBeHeard is trending on twitter in Ireland. It is in reponse to Amnesty International, the National Women's Council of Ireland and other major NGO's calling for people who "defend biology" or who are gender critical to be disenfranchised.

Their words: "..Let us say unequivocally that the statements of newly launched organisations that seek to defend biology or fight gender identity and expression do not represent the wider LGBTI+ community nor feminists in Ireland... We call on media, and politicians to no longer provide legitimate representation for those that share bigoted beliefs."

This is a thread with pictures and the hastag which is trending

twitter.com/TCDFFT/status/1331208440971137024?s=19

A response letter from The Countess didn't fight for this thecountessdidntfightforthis.com/we-will-be-heard/

And an archived copy of the original ridiculous letter they are replying to (usual tropes about being far right etc) archive.is/glPXl#selection-1561.0-1561.202

Great 3rd photo @MadamBatty

Look at this lovely parliamentary language from a TD, you'd think the trouble Brian Stanley's been in this week would have reminded elected representatives not to tweet things like this.

Thank you so much, MadamBatty.

So, there is another sign off Fleet Street on red brick. However, the proportions are vastly different. It is just slightly larger than a single brick, whereas the one on the retweet is six bricks high, at the very least from what can be seen. Metal studs at corner missing from retweet one, too.

I still don't think he thought it was from the Fleet Street office. Also, I in my opinion he was so condemning of defacing the sign with a black marker. So much worse than lobbying for the withdrawal of women's political representation and voice in public life. That is real vandalism.

twitter.com/Goodfoodmum/status/1333719445756391425

It may be worth looking at TD's code of conduct and collating social media posts that contain material like this. There've been others and some have shared the Amnesty letter. Gender Critical feminism is not a hate movement and I'm pretty sure codes of conduct for elected representatives require them to represent the interests of their constituents...

@334bu

Picture according to Twitter dates from 2017 protest against AI's stance on prostitution.

Thankfully plenty of people have been calling O'Gorman out on Twitter over that old picture: twitter.com/Colmogorman/status/1333766514785325057

Iseult White has his number: twitter.com/iseult/status/1334059861651369984

^1)Photo has absolutely zero relevance to Amnesty’s letter debacle- the photo was from time of campaign on Sexual Offences (2017)

2) account tweeting the photo has 242 followers & tweet had zero traction
3)CEOs message builds narrative he & Amnesty are being victimised

Create victim narrative where there has been no victimization.^

O'Gorman is a disgrace.

The text between the ^^ are quotes from Iseult White and should have been in italics.

Also, the tweets from Thomas Pringle below will be archived at archive.vn/kRBzn and archive.vn/eiUqR shortly.

twitter.com/ThomasPringleTD/status/1334893609183801344
twitter.com/ThomasPringleTD/status/1334895219968520193

Those tweets by Thomas Pringle would be appalling from anyone, but from a TD are a complete disgrace.
You would have thought that when he received the negative backlash from the first tweet that he would have realised that perhaps this wasn't quite as popular as he thought. But he went on to put up the 2nd tweet.
But as usual the negative comments were dismissed as being from British feminists.
No, Thomas, we are Irish.

twitter.com/you_know_nuttin/status/1334808593665757185?s=20
The one benefit of "that" letter is that people are starting to realise that this is not about bigotry against Trans rights.

Did any of you see Jennifer O'Connell firmly aligning herself with the TRA movement in the IT to-day? Perhaps she needs differentiation to be relevant to the IT? I mean, if Roisin and Fintan (not really, but in the minds of the simple IT journalists vying for position) have taken the GC mantle, there really is only one way to make sure you stay relevant - decry all those who were not 100% on the side of Elliott Page this week.

I despair when I read main stream media and I don't want to sully my brain with Twitter, where can I read the relevant news of what is actually going on in the world without some woke commentary to add to my enlightenment?

@Annasgirl I did and it's a perfect example of how nothing except total capitulation will do - she's being called out and lectured for 'deadnaming' on social media, because while using the correct new pronouns for Elliot Page consistently she did have the nerve to give the name Page used when starring in their best-known film, so people reading would actually know who on earth this person is.

There is a wave of 'peaking' hitting Ireland, I think/hope.

@notyourhandmaid, you know, I am getting really fed up of female journalists calling us "self declared gender critical feminists" as if we are a bunch of weird friendless women living in a cave. As opposed to the majority of women, most of whom do not even declare themselves feminists these days, never mind GC ones.

And then, what about lesbians who find it insulting that people who go along and follow Iran and change their sex rather than accept that they are gay, are lauded, as opposed to questioning their internal homophobia. And how can someone who is now a man, living with a woman, call themselves part of the Lesbian community any more?
Surely, as someone noted yesterday, they are a straight man.

@Annasgirl 'self declared non-subscribers to self-declaration' might be a better way to put it!

Really good point about Iran.

@Annasgirl

Did any of you see Jennifer O'Connell firmly aligning herself with the TRA movement in the IT to-day? Perhaps she needs differentiation to be relevant to the IT? I mean, if Roisin and Fintan (not really, but in the minds of the simple IT journalists vying for position) have taken the GC mantle, there really is only one way to make sure you stay relevant - decry all those who were not 100% on the side of Elliott Page this week.

I despair when I read main stream media and I don't want to sully my brain with Twitter, where can I read the relevant news of what is actually going on in the world without some woke commentary to add to my enlightenment?

Maybe the FT? I still read the Guardian and IT just avoid the cultists.

The Independent has an article by Ellen Coyne about the Keira Bell case. It mostly focuses on the limbo Irish trans children have been left in. A lot of input by Teni. No real reporting of what had happened to Keira. Just that she had made a "brash decision". No mention of the long term effects of the hormone treatment, the double mastectomy, the lack of assessment or the courts concern about the ability of children to understand what they are consenting to in the long term.A one sided article that fails to acknowledge the actual reasons Kiera won her case.
On the plus side Ian O'Doherty has a fairly scathing article on Amnesty.

I did notice that the trans child in question "Sean" was considering having his eggs frozen prior to starting cross sex hormones. It really is such an awful place for any teenager to be in. I hope whatever system is put in place really ensures the best interests of children are to the forefront of care.
Lobby groups should never have any input in medical practice

Another thing that struck me was that there are currently 13 children receiving puberty blockers in Ireland. Teni said another 40 are being assessed and 70 on waiting list for assessment. Teni emphasise that only half of those assessed go on to have medical intervention
But that would mean if half of those being (or waiting to be) assessed go on to recieve medical intervention there will be 55 children receiving medical intervention in the near future.
That is a big jump from the 13 currently on puberty blockers.

twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1335305526159286274?s=19

Weatherwarning, I haven't read the Indo article but the comments on twitter are all positive about the judgement.

"It mostly focuses on the limbo Irish trans children have been left in."

Which is an interesting way to put the narrative, as opposed to "the medical scandal they have escaped being caught up in".

@Weatherwarning it is a lot - too much - for a kid to have to think about. And they won't have a clue about how fertility isn't a given, either; there's so much emphasis on avoiding pregnancy for teenagers that any difficulties of conceiving (increased slightly by using frozen eggs, which aren't always viable) aren't discussed.

That tweet by Pringle! It has left me proper shook. Actually, it's left me despairing, really.

I have some very peripheral dealings with Pringle as part of my job. He seems like a genuinely decent person. Moreover, a courteous, kind, compassionate person. To see him TERFing with such gay abandon is utterly depressing.

People like him genuinely think they are on the side of the angels. Good people like him. He genuinely would consider himself a friend to women, and on many other issues he has been. Yet, there is no attempt even to listen to what the women he dismisses as TERFs are trying to say.

There seems to be an insurmountable cognitive dissonance there. The tribal identarianism will brook absolutely no deviation from the "liberal" orthodoxy.

I think the war is lost. Tragically, it seems to be lost, at least for this generation. I would like to contact Pringle, but what would be the point? In any case, I would be genuinely fearful about the impact on my employment.

Sorry to be so dismally downbeat.

I think you could get in touch if he is as you say and you know him.. He has probably objectified these awful TERFS and might have his eyes opened by a real person explaining things..

@StephanieRang

twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1335305526159286274?s=19

Weatherwarning, I haven't read the Indo article but the comments on twitter are all positive about the judgement.

The comments are almost overwhelmingly in favour of the court judgment which is good to see. I do wonder why the word of Teni is taken as such an authority by these reporters. The figures quoted by TENI would reflect an anticipated quadrupling of children receiving medical intervention. Yet the reporter never sought to question why? She appeared more concerned that this medical use route was no longer available.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

I think you could get in touch if he is as you say and you know him.. He has probably objectified these awful TERFS and might have his eyes opened by a real person explaining things..

I would agree. I think he doesn't really understand the issues and doesn't realise that this is an issue that ordinary Irish women are very worried about. It is much easier to dismiss it as a group of far right British feminists that are active on social media. This is a theme that crops up on several twitter threads. Apart from the xenophobia, it is lazy. As a public representative it is his job to understand the issues. His "humorous" tweet is alluding to witch burning. Violence against women is never humorous, Thomas.

@SoftDay

That tweet by Pringle! It has left me proper shook. Actually, it's left me despairing, really.

I have some very peripheral dealings with Pringle as part of my job. He seems like a genuinely decent person. Moreover, a courteous, kind, compassionate person. To see him TERFing with such gay abandon is utterly depressing.

People like him genuinely think they are on the side of the angels. Good people like him. He genuinely would consider himself a friend to women, and on many other issues he has been. Yet, there is no attempt even to listen to what the women he dismisses as TERFs are trying to say.

There seems to be an insurmountable cognitive dissonance there. The tribal identarianism will brook absolutely no deviation from the "liberal" orthodoxy.

I think the war is lost. Tragically, it seems to be lost, at least for this generation. I would like to contact Pringle, but what would be the point? In any case, I would be genuinely fearful about the impact on my employment.

Sorry to be so dismally downbeat.

I was hesitant to post this before as I don't know Pringle other than from the media, but he has a new parliamentary assistant who was very involved in the repeal movement, which seems to have been over run with TRAs. I wonder how much influence unelected advisors are having.

That may be the case.
But many people involved in the Repeal movement are now involved in the GC movement.
It could be assumed by many that "Trans rights are human rights" is a safe route to follow as the next progressive movement. Who wouldn't agree with this? For any lazy politician it would appear to be a no brainer. But of course scratch the surface and it is a meaningless slogan.
The issue is far more complex than that. And putting up inflammatory tweets that belittle women does not make anyone look progressive

Just to post quickly as I am off out. Brenda Power has an excellent article in the Sunday Times. I read it in the newspaper so cannot link.? I am not Brenda but she echoes all of the points on this issue that I post regularly on here - some of which have been deleted.

I am so disappointed in Thomas Pringle. I always liked him.

I'm getting worried about the increasing amount of anti-English rhetoric in Ireland. I was born in London to Irish parents, we moved back to Ireland in my teens and I have lived here ever since. I was left with a west London accent that won't shift and I have always got a bit of hassle over it. I understand why it jars with people, I understand what the accent represents.

I have come to accept that I will never be accepted as Irish, I will always be English. I could always brush off the abuse that I got because it always came from a certain type of person - usually uneducated etc.
But now I'm seeing it come from educated people on the left.

I was really upset when I saw the Saoirse McHugh tweet with the Derry Girls meme 'You dirty dirty brit'.
I have always been on the left, I was involved in left wing politics in my early 20s and I never experienced any anti-English sentiment. I don't know if it would be the same now.