Irish women will be heard (trending)

[GrainneMhaol]

Hi everyone. #WeWillBeHeard is trending on twitter in Ireland. It is in reponse to Amnesty International, the National Women's Council of Ireland and other major NGO's calling for people who "defend biology" or who are gender critical to be disenfranchised.

Their words: "..Let us say unequivocally that the statements of newly launched organisations that seek to defend biology or fight gender identity and expression do not represent the wider LGBTI+ community nor feminists in Ireland... We call on media, and politicians to no longer provide legitimate representation for those that share bigoted beliefs."

This is a thread with pictures and the hastag which is trending

twitter.com/TCDFFT/status/1331208440971137024?s=19

A response letter from The Countess didn't fight for this thecountessdidntfightforthis.com/we-will-be-heard/

And an archived copy of the original ridiculous letter they are replying to (usual tropes about being far right etc) archive.is/glPXl#selection-1561.0-1561.202

"It could be assumed by many that "Trans rights are human rights" is a safe route to follow as the next progressive movement."

That's it. It feels like the next 'right' thing and there's plenty of people loudly cheering it on. And why do you dig deeper into an issue when it's the same people who supported another issue you felt strongly about, like same-sex marriage, or abortion access? Why would you be suspicious of your 'side'? (And how many people have the time or energy to do their research, also?)

There's also that forced-teaming narrative of 'trans people were involved in Repeal so we owe them'. (Which most people don't dissect, because they're not aware of self-ID, and so never consider you could also put it like 'trans people got self-ID so owed it to people to get involved in Repeal'.)

@LookingGlassMilk it's a really worrying and vicious trend but it is very Twitter-centric (although, as I've said before, that does still mean a disproportionate impact on journalism and a few other fields).

I was hesitant to post this before as I don't know Pringle other than from the media, but he has a new parliamentary assistant who was very involved in the repeal movement, which seems to have been over run with TRAs. I wonder how much influence unelected advisors are having.

Is this the assistant who used to work with Clare Daly? I have heard some things about one of Clare's assistants but not sure if it's the same person.

notyourhandmaid Yes I have only seen it online at the moment, but I am worried it will filter through to real life, especially amongst the younger generation.

@LookingGlassMilk

I am so disappointed in Thomas Pringle. I always liked him.

I'm getting worried about the increasing amount of anti-English rhetoric in Ireland. I was born in London to Irish parents, we moved back to Ireland in my teens and I have lived here ever since. I was left with a west London accent that won't shift and I have always got a bit of hassle over it. I understand why it jars with people, I understand what the accent represents.

I have come to accept that I will never be accepted as Irish, I will always be English. I could always brush off the abuse that I got because it always came from a certain type of person - usually uneducated etc.
But now I'm seeing it come from educated people on the left.

I was really upset when I saw the Saoirse McHugh tweet with the Derry Girls meme 'You dirty dirty brit'.
I have always been on the left, I was involved in left wing politics in my early 20s and I never experienced any anti-English sentiment. I don't know if it would be the same now.

That Soairse McHugh tweet would have been the source of much outrage if it had been directed at a religious or ethnic minority. Yet it was considered acceptable when directed at British women. I am not sure when people such as Thomas Pringle and Saoirse McHugh, who would consider themselves as the good guys, crossed the line into xenophobic and misogynistic behaviour. But the lack of self awareness in Pringles and McHughs very toxic tweets shows them as people who are only interested in promoting themselves.

We may have lost a few battles and ceded some ground, but the war is most definitely not lost.

The thing that's allowed the trans juggernaut to get so far is that a lot of what's happened re policy etc was carried out under the radar without consultation with all relevant parties.

The more they get away with, the more bold and ridiculous their demands become, shining ever more sunlight on the issue. Their pyrrhic victories can't put the genie back in the bottle. In fact, she's outgrown her bottle by quite a bit.

I'm currently reading The History of Ireland in 250 Episodes. Which has a whole section on Caravats, Shanavests and Rockites dressing up as women in an attempt to evade capture. Frankly, I'm surprised that it hasn't been jumped on by TRAs trying to cancel the author. Because we know that NEVER HAPPENS.

See this too

www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/andrews-in-apology-for-anti-trans-tweets-likes-39830416.html

"it is really imperative that they have access to sport in the same way everyone else does."

They already do. Based on sex, as it is for everyone.

Sinn Fein generally go for the populist vote. I don't think that the majority of people would agree that transwoman participating in women's sports is fair or progressive. But the power of Teni strikes again. The word" transphobic" seems to be enough to make them lose all ability to think rationally.

"...liking tweets which transgender rights campaigners have said are "transphobic"."

Is there anything that transgender rights campaigners don't say is 'transphobic'?

To listen to vulnerable people about what impacts them is a good principle in general, but this principle is being thoroughly abused by people.

Meanwhile, still watching Colm O'Gorman of Amnesty play the victim. He does not understand (the way many bullied or abused kids do not understand as adults) that he is capable of being a bully himself. On the one hand it's a very sad thing to watch, and on the other hand he is being an arse.

Andrews was dead right and such a pity he backtracked in such a cowardly manner.

Cxlm (and whatever other mates hold a sinecure in Amnesty Ireland) have damaged (if not completely undermined) the brand. One of their tweets highlighting a poet in Myanmar who has been locked up for criticising the gov't just appears to be hypocritical. Someone has tweeted that Amnesty would be baying for the unfortunate detainee to be censured if he had criticised Transgender Ideology or said vulnerable women shouldn't be put at risk.

OH asked if we should join Amnesty. I think he thought we could then have a voice within it to protest their misogyny. I nearly spat my tea out in my haste to say they wouldn't be getting a brass farthing from me to spend on their war on women. They are a shell of what they once stood for. Bringing into disrepute and cheapening the imprimatur of an organisation which used to fairly defend the trampling on human rights and conscience. Not lobby for it.

Also, it seems quite a bit of the financial contributions go towards the big salaries for the few head honchos now. It also seems that 'loans' from Amnesty International into Amnesty Ireland are vital in keeping the Irish books afloat. Loans which are then written off.

Amnesty Ireland railed against the SIPO (Standards In Public Life) directive which limited the amount of 'foreign' donations/contributions allowed to be used by political groups/campaigns in Ireland to influence Irish policy/legislation. O'Gorman argues for foreign intervention when it suits him.

O’Gorman’s declaration that Irish law in this area is more draconian than Russia’s or Hungary’s, and that both Amnesty Ireland and the anti-abortion Iona Institute should be free to receive as much funding as they wish from foreign donors, so long as it is publicly declared.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/political-donations-amnesty-s-defiance-1.3328924

Amnesty Ireland won that case due to a procedural flaw and didn't have to return their 'foreign' donation. I thought Colm hated 'foreign' interference and funding, though!

On 31st July 2018, the Standards in Public Office Commission (SIPO) accepted that the process leading to the adoption of a decision in November 2017, which requested Amnesty International to return a donation from the Open Society Foundations (OSF), was “procedurally flawed”. Fiona Crowley from Amnesty International explained that “the decision by the High Court makes no determination of the lawfulness of the OSF grant, but did agree to close its investigation into the grant”. SIPO also agreed to support part of the costs of the proceedings.

civicspacewatch.eu/ireland-regulator-settles-dispute-with-amnesty-ireland-over-foreign-funding/

There is a bill going through the Oireachtas at the moment to address previous legislation ('97 Act amended in 2001) on political donations. www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2019/35/ . I'd be surprised if O'Gorman wasn't actively lobbying for their ability to receive foreign donations in this. It is interesting though, if they are exempt stricter levels of foreign donations and if advocacy groups like that aren't regulated (like a charity). Is there any restriction on what purpose they can use this money for? Who supervises them?

One interesting line from the Oireachtas debate from Senator Mary Seery Kearney was I understand the chilling effect on freedom of speech of advocacy groups . Would that she were prescient enough to refer to the chilling effect on the freedom of speech by advocacy groups. Well, by Amnesty Ireland. and TENI. NCWI are now under the control of TENI.

Sorry, this is the name of the bill and it's stage in the Seanad. Electoral (Civil Society Freedom)(Amendment) Bill 2019: Second Stage .

@Weatherwarning

That may be the case. But many people involved in the Repeal movement are now involved in the GC movement. It could be assumed by many that "Trans rights are human rights" is a safe route to follow as the next progressive movement. Who wouldn't agree with this? For any lazy politician it would appear to be a no brainer. But of course scratch the surface and it is a meaningless slogan. The issue is far more complex than that. And putting up inflammatory tweets that belittle women does not make anyone look progressive

So so true. I believe many have sleep-walked into transactivism on foot of that belief. While I'd like to think politicians would do more research on topics before getting on the bus, I don't think there's any evidence that that has happened.

I'm heartened to see you say many involved in the Repeal movement are now in the GC movement. To me it has felt like it was hijacked before the vote but I'd be very happy to be wrong on that. Maybe it is the because they were vocal and it was the noise gave that impression.

There's also that forced-teaming narrative of 'trans people were involved in Repeal so we owe them'. (Which most people don't dissect, because they're not aware of self-ID, and so never consider you could also put it like 'trans people got self-ID so owed it to people to get involved in Repeal'.)

Why would they be owed anything (or think they were owed anything) for campaigning for Repeal? Aside from it being the right thing to do, transpeople benefit from being able to access abortion services here in Ireland just like the rest of the population. Aside from their own fertility, we asked older people, and infertile people, and celibate people, and people who never thought they'd have an abortion, people who would never need an abortion to vote for the women in their lives. Surely transpeople would be expected to be as empathetic as anyone else?

It was the time for repeal, built on women campaigning and scandalous court cases for thankless decades beforehand. Savita dying and many court cases where women and girls reproductive rights were again and again discussed. TRA's were actively using it as noise distraction to shove the Yogyakarta Principles into Irish law and pull the rug out from Irish women who were focused elsewhere.

What percentage of the population was that again? All the people who voted and coming home to vote. Not falling for the creation of a false sense of obligation.

And how has it all panned out for women? Everything running smoothly. No woman having to go to the UK anymore? Women getting the health care half the citizens of the country deserve. Cervical screening top notch.

Yeah, women should be grateful for any little crumb.

The TRAs alo peddle the false narrative that trans people have always been involved in feminist causes.

They haven't. Until the very last couple of years before the referendum there wasn't a single solitary sign of them. Nor do I
remember gay men (of whom many are now relishing calling women t**fs) giving the slightest shit about women's rights, women's health and women's reproductive freedom. So it galls the fuck out of me to see the likes of O'Gorman and that tiresome old panto dame we're supposed to revere, coat-tailing on Repeal because they lent it their support on Twitter for five minutes.The self-proclaimed "women" are even worse - I'll get deleted if I name them for what they factually are - because they bring to the table an extra dollop of misogyny and personality disorders.

Sorry, just sick of the whole lot of them.

I said upthread that most Irish people would not support transwomen in women's sports. But after seeing the way the Cork and Galway women's teams were treated yesterday, I am not so sure. (Maybe not actively support it but just not care.)
One of the most important matches they have played and not even given time to warm up properly. Then the president of the LGFA said they could have had more time if they had spent less time in the dressing room.
Such a dismissive attitude that would NEVER be said of any men's team.
It is clear that womens sports are considered of lesser value than men's, and is not really that important. That same attitude is reflected in the way women have always been treated in Irish society.

Who is the panto dame character mentioned upthread?

That will be Rory O'Neill.

1. grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/what-changed

2. grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/where-is-rory-oneill

Colm and iseult/Stella on a thread currently.. V interesting re Rory. He won't back down.

Iseult is fantastic. My impression is she's a kind, warm woman who has got such strong principles you could steer a ship by them.

O'Gorman really really shouldn't have treated her like crap.

@LookingGlassMilk

I am so disappointed in Thomas Pringle. I always liked him.

I'm getting worried about the increasing amount of anti-English rhetoric in Ireland. I was born in London to Irish parents, we moved back to Ireland in my teens and I have lived here ever since. I was left with a west London accent that won't shift and I have always got a bit of hassle over it. I understand why it jars with people, I understand what the accent represents.

I have come to accept that I will never be accepted as Irish, I will always be English. I could always brush off the abuse that I got because it always came from a certain type of person - usually uneducated etc.
But now I'm seeing it come from educated people on the left.

I was really upset when I saw the Saoirse McHugh tweet with the Derry Girls meme 'You dirty dirty brit'.
I have always been on the left, I was involved in left wing politics in my early 20s and I never experienced any anti-English sentiment. I don't know if it would be the same now.

My kids got a bit of that at school when we came from London. They developed a neat response : Inis dom do scéal as Gaeilge. This usually shut up the morons

I can't find the Saoirse McHugh tweet. That's awful that you've been treated like that. My bíl got the same, just joking of course.