Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suzanne Moore left the Guardian

244 replies

DialSquare · 16/11/2020 16:59

I've just seen this on Twitter. That'll be even more lost readers then. Not that I'm one of their readers.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
ShadyBansheeThing · 18/11/2020 13:51

Looks like yes to both of those

ShadyBansheeThing · 18/11/2020 13:53

Also Charles Manson, but they seem less apparent for some other serial killers like Harold Shipman and Ted Bundy

I feel horrible that I've googled them!

Floisme · 18/11/2020 13:56

I think a more pertinent question would be whether they do obituaries for terrorists - which is what Sutcliffe was as far as I'm concerned.

But this on its own wouldn't have been such an issue for me. It's when I view it alongside the Graun's other behaviours that I start to wonder what's going on.

Floisme · 18/11/2020 14:07

I can't see one for the London bombers for example.

Floisme · 18/11/2020 14:08

Obituary guardian Manchester bombers

Floisme · 18/11/2020 14:09

Ha ha sorry I posted my own google search then. Blush

Can't see anything for the Manchester bombers either.

Butterer · 18/11/2020 14:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Butterer · 18/11/2020 14:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ShadyBansheeThing · 18/11/2020 14:31

But isn't it more likely to be whether the person is a household name, rather than whether they are or are not a terrorist? There were Osama bin laden obituaries, but most people couldn't name any of the London bombers so I wouldn't expect them to have any.

Floisme · 18/11/2020 14:58

I think that's kind of the point: Sutcllffe treated as a celebrity. I think the Yorkshire Post showed us how it could be done while The Guardian - who like to brag about their northern roots when it suits them - embarrassed themselves.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/peter-sutcliffe-has-died-our-thoughts-are-13-innocent-women-he-murdered-yorkshire-post-says-3034624%3famp

ShadyBansheeThing · 18/11/2020 15:54

By household name I don't mean celebrity, I just mean someone everyone has heard of. Osama bin Laden is similar. I really don't think giving someone an obituary is treating them as a celebrity.

ShadyBansheeThing · 18/11/2020 15:57

Agree the Yorkshire Post cover was very sensitive and thoughtful. But they still did a full write-up of his life, basically and obituary, just not called that.

Floisme · 18/11/2020 16:06

I'm not saying you don't talk about what happened or what he did - in fact you could argue we don't talk about it nearly enough. It's about whose story you tell, whose viewpoint do you tell it from. I think that all things considered The Yorkshire Post got it about right and The Graun bungled it badly.

Floisme · 18/11/2020 16:11

I don't agree with everything in that YP article by the way e.g they describe Sutcliffe as a 'monster from hell'. Nope, he was a man.
But what I think they do right - and where the Graun failed - was that they attempted to tell the story from the point of view of the women whose lives were ended and blighted.

ShadyBansheeThing · 18/11/2020 16:11

I know what you mean about the Guardian seeming dodgy now whatever they do. Everything feels tinged with misogyny.

Floisme · 18/11/2020 16:12

Yes, another time, another place, I might have made allowances. But they're out of credit.

PotholeParadies · 18/11/2020 16:19

@highame

AnotherLass did he (LOJ) raise any cash? or are his fan club a bit strapped
It depends what his overheads for it are going to be.

He has 1600+ subscribers so far, and even if they're only subscribed to the cheapest tier of £3 (+VAT) a month (all tiers are equal it says...), that's £4,881 a month.

But he's got to employ a production team out of that.

www.patreon.com/owenjones84

perfectstorm · 18/11/2020 20:36

@Floisme

I'm not saying you don't talk about what happened or what he did - in fact you could argue we don't talk about it nearly enough. It's about whose story you tell, whose viewpoint do you tell it from. I think that all things considered The Yorkshire Post got it about right and The Graun bungled it badly.
Completely agree. It's whether the women whose lives he stole are seen as furnishings in the melodrama of his life, or human beings with feelings and relationships and hopes and dreams, all of which he stole from them.

I'd love to read an article that talked in detail about who they were, where they came from, what their lives consisted of, and who they left behind (as long as those survivors wanted to be included). That's the real story, when someone kills like this. What was taken by their actions, not the anatomical mechanics of how they harmed. Instead, their histories, personalities and lives have faded away into a void, while every detail of his gets obsessively recorded and picked over.

There's also research that shows focusing on killers in this way actually encourages others. It makes them darkly glamorous. The one time the media were very good was in refusing to play ball with that hideous man who wanted to be known as a crossbow murderer (won't use his preferred moniker). He absolutely wanted to be famous as a serial killer, and it was denied him. It should be all of them.

Butterer · 18/11/2020 20:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Butterer · 18/11/2020 20:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Butterer · 18/11/2020 21:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Butterer · 18/11/2020 21:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aliasundercover · 21/11/2020 13:37

About an hour ago I left a comment under Hadely Freemen's weekend column:

Hadley, please keep doing what you're doing. Now that Suzanne Moore has left you're one of the few writers who keep The Guardian worth reading. Stay strong.

It has yet to appear. It seems supporting Suzanne Moore is not the done thing at TRAudian

ChattyLion · 22/11/2020 11:09

I’m confused why there is a crowdfunder in Owen Jones’ name? What’s he raising money for?

PotholeParadies · 22/11/2020 13:06

@ChattyLion

I’m confused why there is a crowdfunder in Owen Jones’ name? What’s he raising money for?
He's raising money to make current affairs videos.
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread