Statue to honour Wollstonecraft

[MedusasBadHairDay]

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/nov/10/mary-wollstonecraft-finally-honoured-with-statue-after-200-years

It's a naked woman..

Currently reading A Vindication of the Rights of Woman for an OU course, and - unless the tone changes dramatically in the second half of it - I'm not seeing how an idealised nude is the right statue to convey anything about her?

There's going to be tons of inclusive fighting isn't there. Why should a white woman statue represent a white woman when there's so many less privileged identies that need raising up. In fact it's best we chuck white women statues in the rivers sharpish.

@Butterer that does sound like a nightmare.

Please do start the thread you're talking about. I've not experienced abuse from the left wing community but was in an abusive relationship with someone fairly well known and so can relate to the struggle between trying to just erase it from my memory and wanting others to know what happened.

In genuine feminist solidarity

I don't know if solidarity would still be extended to me by the same people - my views on womens and trans rights have u-turned this year

Also surely we should all have solidarity with any woman who has experienced rape or sexual violence. Regardless of their views on trans rights or anything else.

@Butterer

It's proper red hot rage mixed with grief and sadness and pain and then wondering if I am allowed to centre my experiences over others etc.

I skim read the whole thing, and there was something around apologising to hurting other survivors - I'll go back to it when I've calmed down a bit.

I've been having really bad flashbacks recently because groups and causes and people he was involved with are coming up on the news- I avoided having a telly for years because of this, but got one just before lockdown.

I've realised I often trigger myself when talking to jj on here trying to explain how I am not a right wing activist, chucking in my (ahaha) leftie "credentials", and then realising they all involved people who supported/enabled him.

I am going to start a thread in FWR about women's experiences of abuse within left wing communities- I realise it's super niche, but I'm sure I'm not alone. I don't want to discuss right wing group experiences especially though, if that's ok? I've been dithering about it for a few weeks. I don't need permission, I know.

Please do. I'll read/support such a thread, from a position of being on the left. Like anti-Semitism, we leftists need to witness those hurt in and by those of our movement.

We state this as we note that frequently a nude female form is..

yada yada yada

A naked female form is male exclusionary by the fact that it represents nothing but female biology.

A statue of the actual person being celebrated for doing what she did in life and the difference she made would be far less so.

I am going to start a thread in FWR about women's experiences of abuse within left wing communities- I realise it's super niche, but I'm sure I'm not alone. I don't want to discuss right wing group experiences especially though, if that's ok? I've been dithering about it for a few weeks. I don't need permission, I know.

The sad thing is I think if you start such a thread, it will turn out not to be super niche, but distressingly commonplace. Remember the scandals involving rape cover-ups in the SWP, for example.

Certainly, low-grade common-or-garden misogyny is more or less de rigeur on the left, as far as I can tell.

I just read this about Mary Wollstonecraft and felt it rather poignant:

"There is in some quarters a vague prejudice against the Rights of Woman as in some way or other a reprehensible book, but readers who go to it with this impression will be surprised to find it eminently serious, severely moral, and withal rather heavy" - George Eliot

Well doesn't this sound familiar.

@twoHopes

Absolutely predictable response from the ivory towers above.

"We're looking for ideas to rethink the statue of the radical feminist thinker Mary Wollstonecraft. But nothing too radical please. Nothing disrespectful. Nothing that might offend anyone or go against the accepted mantras. And don't you dare try to make any kind of connection between a female body and what constitutes a woman. Oh and only go and visit the statue if it's safe!"

Oh bore off. Revolutionaries you ain't.

To be precise:

'We, fully paid academics in cushy jobs, are looking for other people to provide content for free. We will then add this jolly cobbled together zine to our professional CVs. A note: do watch your thinking is suitably conciliatory when it comes to males - we wouldn't want to jeopardise any chances of future funding.'

@twoHopes

I just read this about Mary Wollstonecraft and felt it rather poignant:

"There is in some quarters a vague prejudice against the Rights of Woman as in some way or other a reprehensible book, but readers who go to it with this impression will be surprised to find it eminently serious, severely moral, and withal rather heavy" - George Eliot

Well doesn't this sound familiar.

Thanks for sharing the George Eliot quote, she never had much truck with women's rights. It's always disappointed me because Maggie Tulliver is such a marvellous, gender expectation defying, character. Very interesting to compare her with MW and her view of women and politics.

Msflibble says it well.

I've found a model for future male statues. It seems to have scope for genital modifications to be fitted if a massive bush is more appropriate.

That's perfect. How about John Stuart Mill? An entirely respectful treatment. Not a statue of him, it would be a statue for him.

"I'm just fucking incandescent with rage over this shitty statue and the assorted twats and morons who thought it was a good idea"
Same.

@Imnobody4

This is a monument to Maggie Hamblin not Mary Wollstonecraft. You could put quotes from anyone on the plinth. As a tribute to her life and work, her actual intellect it is meaningless. It could just as easily represent Eve.

I absolutely loath it. Was there really a public vote on this? Begs the question of who decided to vote, all the MRAs.?

Haven't RTFT, but I agree with this.

My husband is saying that Mary was responding to things that had just happened (especially the thinking of the radical dissenters in whose circles she moved) and had no idea what she might be deemed the “mother of” later.

He has been teaching a Mary course to undergrads this year and there was consensus that. Mary would be no-platformed for about six different reasons nowadays :)
That’s the fun of history surely -she didn’t live to validate us and our opinions.

Incidentally he is not notifying his students about the statue controversy because of the nakedness etc. He would feel creepy emailing them a link.

My elderly DM calls her lady parts her Mary. Sometimes known as hairy Mary.

Well now there is a hairy Mary on the Green.

I absolutely loath it. Was there really a public vote on this? Begs the question of who decided to vote, all the MRAs.?

Haven't RTFT, but I agree with this

The statute was the unanimous choice of the Mary on the Green committee.

The public could express an opinion on the 2 entrants but the decision was made by the committee.

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/16/maggi-hambling-picked-to-create-mary-wollstonecraft-statue

One of the committee basically admitted they chose the Hambling entry over the other (clothed) entry by Martin Jennings because Hambling is a woman.

In other news here's an "empowered" Medusa turning the tables on Perseus; presumably achieved because she wasn't encumbered with those pesky restrictive things known as clothes.

thecritic.co.uk/the-mirror-of-metoo/

There is a crowdfunder for a new statue of Mary Wollstonecraft:

www.crowdfunder.co.uk/statue-for-mary-wollstonecraft

I think their attempt to make a safe decision backfired. The past controversary over picking a male sculptor wouldn't have revived on this scale. People don't actually check the sculptor's name on public art. It would have been occasionally the subject of acerbic remarks from women analysing female representation in the artistic professions, and that's about it. The ordinary woman on the street wouldn't be willing to take up the pitchforks for that.

A nude statue for an 18th century wimen's rights philosopher, though? Even if you'd never heard of A Vindication of the Rights of Women before this week, you can find that statue strongly distasteful.

[quote HecatesCats]There is a crowdfunder for a new statue of Mary Wollstonecraft:

www.crowdfunder.co.uk/statue-for-mary-wollstonecraft[/quote]
140k, are they really that much. And why Malcolm, it should be thrown open again and bids requested. Sorry I will not donate when someone has already decided who gets the commission.

140k, are they really that much. And why Malcolm, it should be thrown open again and bids requested. Sorry I will not donate when someone has already decided who gets the commission

It's up to the person who has set up the crowdfunder how she wants to run it.

There were only 2 entrants last time so not sure "throwing it open" is much of an option.

140k, are they really that much. And why Malcolm, it should be thrown open again and bids requested. Sorry I will not donate when someone has already decided who gets the commission.

Seems fair enough- it's your money!

But I'd think quite a lot of people wouldn't be willing to donate if they didn't know who would get the commission. That's the exact circumstances that led to this disaster- ten years of fundraising without any knowledge what it would pay, then the committee decided where to bestow the money.

I certainly would be hesitant to donate to a campaign structured in that way now.

It's the better of the two and from the first hand report upthread the committee knew but chose the politically correct and edgy option against their own better judgement. That's the great and the good for you huh
I'm for it and will donate.

Strike while the iron is hot and before the whole thing gets dragged into a mass of competing interests.

a man who presented as a woman in the later part of his life, in her list of exceptional women.

It sounds like he had some sort of intersex condition from the contemporary descriptions after his death.