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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

There's a WOMAN in the White House (nearly)

303 replies

ReallyRatherNerdy · 07/11/2020 19:35

Finding this very emotional. Dancing round the kitchen. Anyone else?

OP posts:
7Days · 09/11/2020 22:24

Good. Checks and balances - let the legal system do its job now.
If Trump has done nothing else, he has exposed the weaknesses in the American system.
Hopefully Biden will be a safe pair of hands, as many say, to solidify the weaknesses for when the next lunatic comes along.

That said, Trump Derangement Syndrome is definitely real! ANY other President would have gotten plaudits and praise about the Middle East Peace Deals - they are not nothing. But there was very little coverage, and anyone saying This Is A Good Thing would be called a Trumpster Nazi or similar.

A private company - Twitter - saw fit to censor his tweets. They also banned within minutes information that would hurt his political rivals chances in the election, coming from a mainstream news source. I don't believe that was just some excellent fact checking, how could it be, in that time frame? It was a deliberate partisan blow, and should concern anyone who is interested in democracy, the public square, free press and all that jazz.

I'm glad Trump is gone, he just sent political discourse bananas. Hopefully, if Joe is such a unifier, moderates from both the left and the right will be able to communicate again and actually start thinking things through instead of wailing that they are literally shaking and crying whenever they hear someone in the wrong colour tshirt express an opinion.

American political discourse is gone like the Sistene Chapel thread

FrankieSezRelax · 09/11/2020 22:28

@TheJourneyWoman

See this is my problem with this whole thing. People hate Trump so much that they're willing to ignore that Biden clearly has cognitive issues, that KH's path to the White House has been manipulated and that this election was actually a very close call, far closer than many anticipated and will be fought out in the courts. Trump does have a case to be examined whether we like it or not. I think this head in the sand approach is incredibly dangerous, the democratic process is being blurred. We need to be careful what we wish for.
TY TheJourneyWoman. There are now multiple legitimate legal avenues for Trump to contest the election— and prevail. I don’t say that as someone who wants a continued Trump presidency, but rather I recognize that the election system in the US is a complex mechanism. This slog isn’t over and I think people will be shocked by how long this is drawn out. Every state where the ballots are in question have a Republican lead state legislature. It is these state legislatures which select the representatives who ultimately decides where the state’s electoral votes go. That happens on Dec 14, IIRC.

Though the circumstances are different, Bush v. Gore was only twenty years ago so the precedent of a modern election being decided by the Supreme Court is not ancient history.

BlueCatRedCat · 09/11/2020 22:28

ForeUnderTheHand RTFT

FireUnderTheHand · 09/11/2020 22:38

@BlueCatRedCat

ForeUnderTheHand RTFT
Ok, well I did, but I tend to correct those that misrepresent how my country's government works. I always read TFT before replying and add to a convo when I think I have something new to add as is my prerogative. But thanks for the attempted shame-y instruction.

And yes I saw you conceded that you misrepresented our legislative branch elections and I felt that a clear explanation was still due. Maybe don't assert falsities and then you won't have to worry about being corrected multiple times.

/Just sayin'.

BlueCatRedCat · 09/11/2020 22:52

The misrepresentation was through clumsy use of language (for which I apologised, and which I clarified) not lack of knowledge or seeking to assert falsities. Clarify away, but you haven't actually added anything more to the conversation, apart from calling voters "sheeple".

Quaagars · 09/11/2020 22:56

She corrected your mis-representation though?
How is that not adding anything?
Or did you just want to go uncorrected and nobody question?
It's good to get mis-information corrected instead of standing

BlueCatRedCat · 09/11/2020 23:09

I clarified my own remark at 16.23, Quaagars , in response to FrankieSez.

turnitonagain · 09/11/2020 23:22

This thread is so full of inaccuracies!

Trump has no legitimate legal path to victory, Biden does not have dementia, and the Senate is not on the verge of making Self ID federal policy.

Title IX changes under Obama still protect women’s sports, sororities, single sex dormitories etc at university campuses. Given many of America’s top universities are religious, I struggle to imagine say Notre Dame, whose president is a Catholic priest, being made to accommodate transgender students. You can’t even buy a condom on campus.

People can talk about America but they are imagining that Britain’s issues are theirs. They are not. Americans do not need MN users who haven’t stepped a foot outside of Walt Disney World to breathlessly panic about how the trans agenda is coming for their children.

FireUnderTheHand · 09/11/2020 23:25

FTR (not directed at you BlueCat on any level), I attempted to have open discourse in FWR on multiple threads regarding the incumbent and the current POTUS-elect.

Because I think they both suck, depending on what I said at any given time I was either regarded as a bigot funded by right-wing Christians (nothing funnier has been said about me, ever) or a dimwitted 'progressive' - neither of which are true. Like many of my compatriots I am disgusted by the polarization of this potentially great country and by the overt inability to think beyond feelings (right & left leaning regardless of party affiliation); where I differ is that I refuse to espouse the greatness of either side as they are both fucked up in their own ways.

This shit is broken as fuck and if you are part of it and can't see it for what it is you are willfully ignorant and a huge part of the problem. This is a nation of (mostly) spoiled assholes hellbent on enforcing individualism to the detriment of individuals.

This nation is showing all the signs of the falls of civilizations of the past. I refuse to pick a side because both sides are corrupt and seek to dismantle important legislature without regard for the most vulnerable (incl humans, animals, plants/ecosystems).

Both sides lost me because I am informed... not by MSM or SM but by reading our actual legislative documents (incl constitution) as well as SCOTUS opinions/decisions as well as DC opinions/decisions as well as State Supreme Court opinions/decisions (when relevant) as well as state constitutions (when relevant) as well as state/federal budgets when released and POTUS guidance in addition to reading brokered peace agreements and economy data et al.

I mean if both sides could state facts we'd be in much better shape but as it stands it is just a game of whose morals are on the right side of history or on the right side of God (hint: both sides are wrong on many things and both sides are right on many things depending on what the subject involves).

We have a sad state of affairs here; I am completely mortified by the bizarre excitement about a POTUS-elect that nobody really wants just because they aren't the incumbent. The only celebrating I am doing in regards to this shitshow is that fewer trees will be stripped to send propaganda in the mail and I can finally clear out my VM (it is full of propaganda call VMs from both sides).

FireUnderTheHand · 09/11/2020 23:43

@BlueCatRedCat

The misrepresentation was through clumsy use of language (for which I apologised, and which I clarified) not lack of knowledge or seeking to assert falsities. Clarify away, but you haven't actually added anything more to the conversation, apart from calling voters "sheeple".
Ok whatever.

If you don't think term limits and when the runoff will be held and for whom isn't new and valuable info I can only surmise that you are just mad that you got called out.

And FTR many voters here ARE sheeple, completely uninformed and go by what SM tells them or what some dude at the gas station said or One America News or CNN without having any inkling that they are consuming propaganda like H2O. Many of my compatriots don't know anything about our constitution beyond what they misquote and they definitely aren't reading SCOTUS opinions in their entirety - you should see the looks I get when people attempt to speak about whatever junk they saw on FB and realize I actually take the time to be truly informed and that their interpretation of a soundbite is worlds away from the actual ruling/opinion. Many of them don't even know that their state has a constitution or a supreme court.

Be mad on their behalf if you want but they are a huge part of the problem; their laissez-faire attitudes towards policies (enacting or revoking/amending) that affect anyone that isn't them is disheartening to say the least.

Floisme · 09/11/2020 23:58

I don't think I've ever known a topic on FWR attract as many accusations, and scoldings as this election has done.

Do please correct us when we get our facts wrong, and many thanks to US posters who have patiently answered questions over multiple threads. But of course we're going to talk about it. This last week has been the first time since March that the pandemic hasn't been front page news in the UK. The time to get worried is when the world stops talking about you.

Escapeplanning · 09/11/2020 23:58

People can talk about America but they are imagining that Britain’s issues are theirs. They are not. Americans do not need MN users who haven’t stepped a foot outside of Walt Disney World to breathlessly panic about how the trans agenda is coming for their children.

So that's fine, American's do not need to read anything written by MN users. And as America is the nation that inflicted the plastic shit show for obese adult babies that is Walt Disney World on the planet, then maybe keep the predictability poor American attempt at sarcasm to yourself.

Quaagars · 10/11/2020 00:13

@Escapeplanning

People can talk about America but they are imagining that Britain’s issues are theirs. They are not. Americans do not need MN users who haven’t stepped a foot outside of Walt Disney World to breathlessly panic about how the trans agenda is coming for their children.

So that's fine, American's do not need to read anything written by MN users. And as America is the nation that inflicted the plastic shit show for obese adult babies that is Walt Disney World on the planet, then maybe keep the predictability poor American attempt at sarcasm to yourself.

Lots of Americans are MNers too lol, with every right to read and contribute to MN. Why the dig at adults who like Disney?! Random to say the least
FrankieSezRelax · 10/11/2020 00:15

FTR I’m an American @turnitonagain.

“Trump has no legitimate legal path to victory, Biden does not have dementia, and the Senate is not on the verge of making Self ID federal policy.”

The senate? No. I don’t recall anyone with knowledge of the US House and Senate (not to mention the deep divides btw them) suggesting the senate would make self-id policy.

But Biden can sign the Equality Act into law via executive order and he most likely will do just that in an effort to keep the bill out of the headlines and off the debate floor. We discuss all the time the ways the TRA agenda has been let in through the proverbial backdoor in the UK without rightfully informing the public or allowing for debate; do you really think the tactics used in the US would be any different?

turnitonagain · 10/11/2020 00:27

For a bill to become a law both houses of Congress have to pass it. If the Senate, which is far more conservative, amends it the House has to agree to those changes.

The ERA never got passed in 50 years but you think the Equality Act is about to sail through?

turnitonagain · 10/11/2020 00:35

Oh - and if Biden pushed it through by EO, which I’m not sure he actually can - and the law caused the problems you anticipate, it will be prime fodder for 2024 Republicans to promise to overturn it the first day of their new presidential term.

FrankieSezRelax · 10/11/2020 00:55

@turnitonagain

Oh - and if Biden pushed it through by EO, which I’m not sure he actually can - and the law caused the problems you anticipate, it will be prime fodder for 2024 Republicans to promise to overturn it the first day of their new presidential term.
I don’t disagree. I’ve already stated in this thread if/when the Equality Act is passed, it’ll eventually have a date with SCOTUS.

However Biden absolutely can sign the EA through as an EO. What would be the grounds for stopping him? Can you cite anything?— asking in earnest, not as a gotcha.

turnitonagain · 10/11/2020 01:00

I’ve never heard of a president passing a Bill sitting with the Senate by EO. That’s just not the process of lawmaking in the US. EO’s can instruct agencies under the President’s authority to take certain measures. But pass pending laws? How could they as they are reversible?

By the way this is Biden’s list of policy priorities, there’s a hell of a lot there to keep him busy for four years and LGBT/trans isn’t on it.

www.npr.org/2020/11/09/932190347/bidens-first-100-days-here-s-what-to-expect?utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR374Wt2mGUo4-Xsk7QlvefruVWJWWaHY7aQTVAiEu3rUDBFu-zvEERDfB8&fbclid=IwAR3S6IE1Zodh0LzvIzdro6QUV8Nw4-46Z7qHnpStJqT7nuDZk-UqwsGbmqI

turnitonagain · 10/11/2020 01:59

Ah October...when the Democrats thought they were going to gain 5-6 seats in the Senate.

But your links helpfully point out the difference between legislation and EOs so that’s quite useful.

Kind of my point which is that the senate has a conservative bias making it unlikely that any left-wing legislation will come through Congress for the foreseeable future. Even several Democratic senators eg Joe Manchin would probably be no votes. The ACA is the most “radically left” policy that came out of Democratic control of Congress under Obama.

In other words - America is conservative and its government largely reflects that. Britain is totally different culturally and structurally.

FireUnderTheHand · 10/11/2020 02:08

@Floisme

I don't think I've ever known a topic on FWR attract as many accusations, and scoldings as this election has done.

Do please correct us when we get our facts wrong, and many thanks to US posters who have patiently answered questions over multiple threads. But of course we're going to talk about it. This last week has been the first time since March that the pandemic hasn't been front page news in the UK. The time to get worried is when the world stops talking about you.

It has been a wild ride from my perspective.

I won't lie I was a little shocked by the lack of open discourse in general about this election. MN at least provided some pragmatic discussions but throughout the US online and in society there is a great deal of self-segregation from both sides leaving those like me feeling like hanging chads.

I am so thankful for those of you that weigh in (regardless of country) as it helps refine my perspective from my own political trenches. I am always happy to correct or be corrected and when I see someone clearly misrepresents an immensely important part of our government I will seek to clarify. I meant to give info in my response not berate (well the sheeple I mean to berate if I'm honest but that's it).

I read back over my correction of BlueCat's misrepresentation to ensure I wasn't unnecessarily harsh or finger-pointy or hateful and after re-reading it I found that short of calling her out it was innocuous (IMO anyway). But as an American I also realize that what I find to be okay is sometimes interpreted as rude (or is actually rude I guess) so I apologize if it is warranted.

My follow-up post was meant a little tongue-in-cheek, a little snarky, because she said "RTFT" and I am over people's assumptions and warrantless instruction.

That's all I have in me as I am firmly in the 'fuck being kind' zone as I'm actively being erased by the 'be kind' groupies via regulatory as well as legislative capture and now the executive branch capture is in clear view.

I have recruited several women from my group (of every political flavor) to participate in Saturday's forum RE: ERA - we are all hoping for the best but fully expecting the worst.

BlueCatRedCat · 10/11/2020 02:11

If you don't think term limits and when the runoff will be held and for whom isn't new and valuable info I can only surmise that you are just mad that you got called out.

Date for run off, date for mid term elections, both mentioned by me in my long post at 10.45. For whom, again, clarified having been "called out" by FrankieSez on my original gabbled comment. Happy to be called out, not really to be patronised or scolded, especially when I have already corrected myself, made the salient points or had the conversation with other people at the time.

But ultimately, no, I don't think anyone was looking for the full ins and outs of US constitutional law, just the basics, in the general context of a bunch of Brits discussing wtf happens now. Obviously, the fine detail is very important to you as an informed American. I don't know whether you have a legal background or work in a political field, or whether you are just interested. But you are being pretty unrealistic to expect the vast, vast majority to have the energy, inclination, educaton or means to understand all the ins and outs of constitutional law or political machinations in general. For the vast majority, it is not their fault, your system never gave them a chance. Your attitude towards people with an equal voting right as you is replete with contempt. Perhaps that's justified in your experience; but if Brexit has taught us British anything, woe betide telling someone with as much power as you have that they are a fuckwit.

Perhaps using all that knowledge to start a conversation at grassroots level might change a few minds. Nobody on a UK website is going to care much once this thread disappears into the annals. We've got our own problems, and have been told quite categorically that our gender ID issues aren't your issues, and that we don't understand your issues. I'm pretty relieved to know that, actually.

FrankieSezRelax · 10/11/2020 02:22

@turnitonagain

Ah October...when the Democrats thought they were going to gain 5-6 seats in the Senate.

But your links helpfully point out the difference between legislation and EOs so that’s quite useful.

Kind of my point which is that the senate has a conservative bias making it unlikely that any left-wing legislation will come through Congress for the foreseeable future. Even several Democratic senators eg Joe Manchin would probably be no votes. The ACA is the most “radically left” policy that came out of Democratic control of Congress under Obama.

In other words - America is conservative and its government largely reflects that. Britain is totally different culturally and structurally.

Are you familiar with the EO-13950 “Combating Race and Sex Stereotyping” that was issued in September?
FireUnderTheHand · 10/11/2020 02:25

Sorry I meant forum on the EA (HR-5).

And to clarify my own typo (just in case you are unaware), the ERA has been ratified by the required 38 states but many did so post the 1982 deadline for ratification. As of 02/2020 the House passed HJ Res 79 allowing revocation of 1982 deadline but the ERA still faces many hurdles to become law at this point (I hope it is ratified in our constitution sooner rather than later but I mean it has been around since 1923 so I'm not holding my breath).

My apologies for the typo in my previous post.

turnitonagain · 10/11/2020 03:07

@FrankieSezRelax is that the one that bans critical race theory in federal institutions?

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