The police should not record us as hateful in secret

[Spero]

Dear all

At 2pm Tomorrow I will be launching something which I understand it is against the terms and conditions of this site to mention but i hope you will check out my Twitter page for more information - @SVPhillimore.

I know its a difficult time of the year to ask people to do more gardening but if you don't feel like actually hefting a spade I would be really grateful if you could amplify my information.

I seriously think we are currently facing the most significant threat to our fundamental civil liberties in my life time. My lawyers have written today to Wiltshire and the College of Policing to give them until November 20th to delete the recording made about me that I am 'hateful' and to withdraw the hate crimes guidance. If they won't - we go to court.

@DeaconBoo

OK, so you are saying all hate incidents are just allegations?

No, some may be crimes for which not enough evidence has been found to press charges.

Banging my head against a brick wall here so I'm peacing out now.
Hate incidents and hate crimes are separate. Crimes break the law.

You still seem to be under the impression that there is some requirement for evidence or test of guilt for a hate incident to have taken place.

(Btw jj - if you do find you have a hate incident recorded under your name, I promise it isn't by me! Not that I know your name etc)

You still seem to be under the impression that there is some requirement for evidence or test of guilt for a hate incident to have taken place.

I'm not under that impression at all. There is no test of guilt for any information the police might hold on you, and whether that information is ever made available in a enhanced DBS check is a decision made by the local chief of police based on whether that information is relevent to the role being applied for.

(Btw jj - if you do find you have a hate incident recorded under your name, I promise it isn't by me! Not that I know your name etc)

Go for it, I don't care, I spent two decades involved in radical left politics, I've probably got a file the size of a telephone book.

Keeping this thread bumped is evidently having an impact judging by the flourishing happening in the allotment.
Well done everyone.

As another example, say a young black lad goes to the police and says looks, theres this gang of blokes, I've heard they might be in the BNP, and they've been hanging around outside my house, and giving me funny looks, and one of them shouted something but I didn't hear properly and I just wanted to get something on record in case anything does happen because I'm a bit scared. Now there's no evidence of any crime being committed, or even a suggestion a crime has been committed. Pre Macpherson, a decent copper might have said okay, well lets make a note of that, have you got their names and I'll keep an eye on them and you come back if you have anymore concerns understand? But a shitty copper, a racist copper, a copper who might be a member of the BNP themsleves, might think fucking aresholes, always complaining about nothing, I'm not even gonna write this down.

Hate incidents were introduced to ensure that racist police didn't have a choice, they had to record it. In an ideal world they would have recorded it before, but it's not an ideal world, and then as now some police held prejudices against some minority groups. It's wasn't a plan to introduce a stasi or police people's thoughts, it was a way of ensuring that police recorded intelligence properly when it came to complaints and concerns raised by people of colour and other minorities.

Plants are growing even in winter 🔥🔥🔥

Thank you all who have hefted a spade, 77% of the garden has now been dug

Amazing effort. One last heave.

Information from mark Kennedys intelligence reports wouldn't automatically be disclosed in an enhanced DBS, or be available to the DBS vetting teams if I'm reading your statement right.

Nothing would automatically be disclosed but yes, if any of that information was passed to local police stations, then it could potentially be recorded as far as I know, unless the undercover operations were working to different rules. It shouldn't be though, if someone applies for a job as a teacher and theres information on file about them being involved in a road protest camp a decade ago that shouldnlt be considered relevent and the police chief should not allow it to be included - and if they did thats probably the point for legal intervention.

Solidarity @Spero.

Hate incidents were introduced to ensure that racist police didn't have a choice, they had to record it. In an ideal world they would have recorded it before, but it's not an ideal world, and then as now some police held prejudices against some minority groups. It's wasn't a plan to introduce a stasi or police people's thoughts, it was a way of ensuring that police recorded intelligence properly when it came to complaints and concerns raised by people of colour and other minorities.

Yes, and now it’s being used my misogynists to keep track of women who believe biological sex is real. Isn’t it crazy? I’m sure you’ll agree the power is being abused jj and it’s now devolved from its original good intention to something far more sinister. It’s not about collecting intelligence if it can show up on an advanced check. It’s a black mark against that person. It’s McCarthyism.

That’s why I think Doreen Lawrence should be involved. A strategy brought in to help prevent such tragedies as her son’s death has been appropriated by people to silence women instead, and now the entire process isn’t fit for purpose as a result. Must be pretty galling.

Always worth going back to Spero's twitter page to find out more about the efforts she's going to - @SVPhillimore

Just imagine all the hate incident reports that could be filed and logged against you, jj, if only sex was one of the protected characteristics wrt hate incidents.

It’s all in an individual’s perception of hate, there doesn’t need to be any actual evidence of it whatsoever.

Now my genuine perception of your posts is that they are hateful towards women. I wouldn’t even have to pretend I think they are just to make a point; I really do feel that you hate women. I really do feel that your actions generate hostility to women; that you make the world a more hostile, less safe place for women to live in.

My perception, based on things you've said, is that you actively want to curtail women’s rights and freedoms, and you intend to continue work against our interests, so in my mind you pose a very real threat to me and other women.

If I could report every single one of your posts that I perceive as misogynistic, that has caused me or other women distress or that I think has made me or other women feel less safe, you would have a telephone book of hate incidents come up against your name on a DBS check; not a good look for someone who sells himself as one of the good guys.

Your posts on this board could themselves be perceived as harassment of a group who share a protected characteristic that you don’t share. I certainly perceive them as harassment. You are a member of the dominant (sex) class harassing members of the dominated (sex) class: the equivalent, in my perception, of a white racist going onto a board for black people and harassing them there.

If I were transgender and I felt you were transphobic that is all that would be required for me to accuse you of a hate incident.

Sadly for me, hate against women is so perfectly normalised and acceptable that however much I perceive you to be committing hate incidents, I can’t report you.

The problem with men like you is that you’re sooo good at pointing the finger at the ones you see as baddies; you can hold forth about Stephen Lawrence and the McPherson report till the cows come home - but you are quite incapable of analysing your own behaviour through that same lens when you’re the one benefiting from structural power and privilege, you’re the one abusing that power and privilege.

It’s what makes you every bit as dangerous to women as old school reactionary misogynist bigots, but with an added layer of extreme tediousness.

Standing up for a round of applause here talking

Why thank you. Taking a bow, Hecates

@jj1968

What this whole case strikes me as is another example of middle class people being absolutely furious when they are policed the exact same way everyone else always has been.

I have been recorded as ' a barrister posting hate' for saying men can't self ID as women. For saying my dog likes cheese.

What on Earth does your perception of my class have to do with finding this abhorrent, stupid and unlawful?

This poses a risk to us all. If you don't agree, don't donate. But please try to engage with what is actually happening rather than make it about my hurty feelz.

@NotBadConsidering

Hate incidents were introduced to ensure that racist police didn't have a choice, they had to record it. In an ideal world they would have recorded it before, but it's not an ideal world, and then as now some police held prejudices against some minority groups. It's wasn't a plan to introduce a stasi or police people's thoughts, it was a way of ensuring that police recorded intelligence properly when it came to complaints and concerns raised by people of colour and other minorities.

Yes, and now it’s being used my misogynists to keep track of women who believe biological sex is real. Isn’t it crazy? I’m sure you’ll agree the power is being abused jj and it’s now devolved from its original good intention to something far more sinister. It’s not about collecting intelligence if it can show up on an advanced check. It’s a black mark against that person. It’s McCarthyism.

That’s why I think Doreen Lawrence should be involved. A strategy brought in to help prevent such tragedies as her son’s death has been appropriated by people to silence women instead, and now the entire process isn’t fit for purpose as a result. Must be pretty galling.

See this is what I mean about the outrage that the middle classes (in the case of those bringing this case) have about being policed the same way as everyone else.

In the example I gave those blokes hanging about could be perfectly innocent. They might not even be racists. They'd have had just as much right to complain as Harry or Sarah. But I expect most of you thought the police response I suggested would be perfectly reasonable. Until the police treat someone GC the same way.

The only way any information should be disclosed on an enhanced DBS should be if it represents a safeguarding risk. Something I thought the GC movement was very strong on and acknowledged that this should apply to everyone, and that no-one should feel threatened or perturbed if safeguarding measures apply to them. Except GC people it seems. Who will go to court and squander tens of thousands of pounds trying to destroy what is at heart a safeguarding measure.