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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

10yo son accused of being transphobic, help me write to school

424 replies

flowery · 03/11/2020 10:09

I am trying not to be too angry, but my 10yo came home yesterday saying I'd be pleased to know what he said about transgender at school. It was a discussion amongst his friends, not with the teacher present and not as part of a lesson, and he'd said it was not possible to change sex.

Apparently one of his friends said he was transphobic for saying so. He doesn't seem worried and doesn't want me to make a fuss, and it doesn't sound like it was said to him in a nasty way. But I'm not happy.

I've got no reason to think the school is teaching any gender woo stuff, I don't think they're particularly 'woke', but I want to check. I'm also not sure what to do about the accusation. I don't want my son to feel he can't express a view or say biological sex is real without someone else accusing him of any kind of 'phobia'.

He's not shy and is popular and quite a strong character, but that's not the point.

I have the new government guidance so I am planning to write to his teacher, probably in a 'not making a fuss don't want to get anyone into trouble' kind of way, just asking how they teach this subject and reiterating that I would like to be sure that it is clear to children that someone disagreeing with them isn't a phobia, that it is is not literally possible to change sex, and that differing opinions are perfectly fine.

I seem to remember someone somewhere linking to some kind of table done by the NHS where it says it's not possible to change biological sex. I can't find it, does anyone know what it was and perhaps have a link?

Plus any thoughts on how best to handle it would also be appreciated.

OP posts:
MistressIggi · 03/11/2020 15:40

I can call it an opinion if I want to
You can indeed, but you're still wrong. And you don't get to tell other people that facts are opinions. (well, we can't stop you, but the stupidity will be obvious)

YouKidsIsCrazy · 03/11/2020 15:46

I can call it an opinion if I want to. Which is what I want to do. My calling it an opinion makes no difference to you

You can all day night if you want, but you'd be wrong. You can call a fact an opinion, and you'd be wrong.
You can blither nonsense to yourself all you like,you have that right, but nobody else has to listen to you.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 03/11/2020 15:46

You can indeed, but you're still wrong. And you don't get to tell other people that facts are opinions. (well, we can't stop you, but the stupidity will be obvious)

Smile you're very right, stupidity is very obvious.

I didn't 'tell' anyone anything, or say anyone was wrong, I simply chose a word I was comfortable using.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 03/11/2020 15:47

You can blither nonsense to yourself all you like,you have that right, but nobody else has to listen to you.

Stop responding then Confused

YouKidsIsCrazy · 03/11/2020 15:49

I simply chose a word I was comfortable using

But do you understand that words have actual meanings, and your level of comfort has no bearing on those meanings? You might be comfortable using a word that does not mean what you are using it to mean, but not only are you making other people uncomfortable, you are doing actual harm.
A bit like calling people transphobic when they are not. Or saying humans can change their biological sex, when they can't.

YouKidsIsCrazy · 03/11/2020 15:50

Stop responding then

and leave your nonsense unchallenged? Why would I do that?

MistressIggi · 03/11/2020 15:56

If we can't agree that words have certain meanings that we can both use, then it is actually impossible to have a conversation. I may as well speak Arabic and you Portuguese.
It's fascinating you think other people are stupid Grin (though possibly to you the word means "clearly right but I don't want to admit it")

Delphinium20 · 03/11/2020 16:32

Because kids get language wrong, they use words they've heard in similar conversations, but they use them incorrectly. When my youngest was 10, her sister said something generic about boys, like, "Our boys swim team is amazing...they've won x amount meets this year." And my 10 year old said, "That's sexist, girls win meets too." She just didn't get the context. But it's still cool that the other boys heard him say you can't change sex...hopefully it will click someday for the bystanders!

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 03/11/2020 16:33

Op would do well to teach their child that theres a time and place for expressing opinions that could upset some, and that there may well be consequences for that in years to come.

This reads like you're predicting the formation of some kind of Stasi. It is important to teach children about human rights like free speech and those who would snatch those rights away.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 03/11/2020 16:38

Ahhh here we go. Jumping on a word I chose to use, I didn't dictate anyone else used it, nor did I say anything to others who used a different word, but you know I have a point that the kid can call ops son transphobic if he wishes and you don't like that.

These threads always go the same way.

And, yes, since you were the one who stated that you don't have to listen to me, I would suggest that you can 'leave my nonsense unchallenged' Hmm

jj1968 · 03/11/2020 16:48

@Quaagars

Have you said that on Twitter? You'd get lynched!

No because I'm not on Twitter (well I am, but I never tweet about trans issues Grin )

You wouldn't get lynched anyway. No-one would care. You didn't say anything remotely transphobic and I very much doubt anyone who was trans would criticise what you said.
WooblyBoobly · 03/11/2020 17:00

just asking how they teach this subject and reiterating that I would like to be sure that it is clear to children that someone disagreeing with them isn't a phobia, that it is is not literally possible to change sex, and that differing opinions are perfectly fine.

You have inspired me, OP, to donate again to Safe Schools Alliance UK, and FPFW too

Quaagars · 03/11/2020 17:08

I would like to be sure that it is clear to children that someone disagreeing with them isn't a phobia

Why do people say that, though?
The word transphobia doesn't automatically mean you're phobic of trans people!
I mean we say homophobia, and that doesn't mean that means you must be terrified of gay people.

Quaagars · 03/11/2020 17:11

You wouldn't get lynched anyway. No-one would care. You didn't say anything remotely transphobic and I very much doubt anyone who was trans would criticise what you said.

Good to know Smile
It always makes me Hmm the way people on here treat trans people on Twitter as one big scary blob - why would I "get lynched?"
OK, you probably do get some extremist views on there, but they won't speak for everyone.

Winesalot · 03/11/2020 17:21

Actually Quaagars you would indeed get twitter piled on if you expressed that biological sex is real and cannot be changed. I see it happen every single day.

ScrapThatThen · 03/11/2020 17:25

Your son dealt with it fine. The school was not involved. You will potentially undermine your son's stance if you now follow up with the school, for what end? Let him be pleased to tell you.

YouKidsIsCrazy · 03/11/2020 17:28

Ahhh here we go. Jumping on a word I chose to use, I didn't dictate anyone else used it, nor did I say anything to others who used a different word

Do you not understand how language works? You don't get to make up your own meanings. "Opinion" means one thing. "Fact" means another. They are not interchangeble. One can't change into the other just because you say so. LIKE SEX.

Flapjak · 03/11/2020 17:29

Lemonsifficult, is it a fact the earth is a sphere, or is that just an opinion?

When does opinion become fact?

If someone is stating a fact, then that can never and should never be a hate crime, even if it is being said to a person who holds said false belief that humans can change sex.

JellyFishSquish · 03/11/2020 17:32

You wouldn't get lynched anyway. No-one would care.

Complete twattery. I am not even on twitter and I have seen it happen. Why lie? Who benefits?

jennie0412 · 03/11/2020 17:33

@Mischance

Put away your pen.

He made a point, someone else disagreed with him. That is life.

Do not blow this out of proportion. They are children experimenting with having their own ideas and views. He needs to hear views that are not prevalent at home. It is how he will learn what he himself thinks. He has no problem with that and does not want you to make a fuss. Does that carry any weight with you, or are you prepared to ride roughshod over his views?

Jump down off your soapbox and leave it be.

Agreed
jj1968 · 03/11/2020 17:57

@Winesalot

Actually Quaagars you would indeed get twitter piled on if you expressed that biological sex is real and cannot be changed. I see it happen every single day.
No, they wouldn't. People who obsessively tweet about how trans women are men hundreds of times a day, spread misinformation about trans people, accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being misogynist homophobic groomers and relentlessly promote organisations and individuals some people feel are transphobic might get some pushback.

Someone who said I don't believe it's possible to change biological sex but I support trans people being legally and socially recognised and treated as their aquired gender would barely ruffle a feather. People say thing like that on trans twitter all the time. I think many trans people would agree, I pretty much agree.

MistressIggi · 03/11/2020 18:01

I once said on twitter that I wouldn't feel safe using public toilets with male bodied people and was told I was disgusting and hated trans people and more in a similar vein. That was literally all I had posted. So I don't agree there would be no "pile on".

RuffleCrow · 03/11/2020 18:02

Not being able to change sex is a fact - not an opinion @fcuk38. Sounds like he was glad to have put his accurate knowledge of human biology to good use. As he should be.

Flapjak · 03/11/2020 18:04

Isnt that what jkrowling said and got death threats? You must be on twitterlite if you 'believe' what you just wrote

Regularsizedrudy · 03/11/2020 18:04

Ffs so 2 children had an amicable disagreement and you want to stick your nose in and write to the school. Get a life.