BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

[OhHolyJesus]

I mean I'm not surprised but Bitesize is used by schools through the country as a supposed reliable, unbiased source of education material.

mobile.twitter.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1319025713475952641?fbclid=IwAR0rTBD2j5PKOeTKvYSSX90c4RUDmJDo7Zg613qnDBXNaAncv3J8epYWLSQ

You can complain here:

www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint

Or email your MP and cc MPs Safe Schools Alliance on info@safeschoolsallianceuk.

In the tweet thread there are some people already complaining. I'm not a defund the BBC kind of person but I can see why license fee layers are questioning what the BBC are doing with their money (there is a website 'BBC complaints' that's all about biased Brexit coverage).

What does 'gender' mean jj? Or anyone who knows

There are over a hundred genders according to the bbc

Most people use him/her and then they for plural.

So either we need hundreds of pronouns fir each gender none of which anyone is able to instantly recognise i mean how will I know if someone's tetris gender? Akd yes that's real Google it. Or there's something else that determins which one. Sex maybe??? Just a thought.

I won't lie you have mo right to make me and its not my lifes purpose to "be kind" to my own detriment and distress every minute if the day.

jj seems to have experienced homophobic and misogyny tinged bullying at school. Jj doesn't seem remotely bothered by the horrific levels of homophobia and misogyny inherent in Genderism. That's a puzzler.

pronouns are based on gender

Gender is not a universal constant. How should a woman in Newcastle, a woman in Umoja, a woman in Khasi and a woman in Kyoto all be addressed? They exhibit radically different gendered expressions. Yet all are equally women.

@testing987654321

It's not a lie, pronouns are based on gender.

You keep saying this. Can you explain what you mean by it? I have always used pronouns based on the sex I perceive someone to be. So a very masculine looking woman I know who is easily mistaken for a man is still "she".

I'd also like to know what makes a ship female.

You keep saying this. Can you explain what you mean by it? I have always used pronouns based on the sex I perceive someone to be. So a very masculine looking woman I know who is easily mistaken for a man is still "she"

Presumably because that matches her gender. Do you know many trans men?

I'd also like to know what makes a ship female.

My guess is it's a hangover due to the fact our language is in part derived from gendered languages.

Yy @Alltheprettyseahorses the self-indulgent Ivory Tower elitism and (mainly white mc) privilege of the Genderist cult would be shocking if it wasn't so damn inevitable! It's like Guy of Gisborne from Maid Marian and Hugh Laurie's Prince Regent had a baby (which i'm sure is something considered technically possible in their Looking Glass world).

There are over a hundred genders according to the bbc

Exciting isn't it, what young people are doing. I suspect many second wave radical feminists such as Dworkin and Firestone would heartily approve. How can gender continue to function as a system of social control based on physical sex if there are a near infinite number of genders?

jj

If you had to speak to the police becuase your child was missing, and bearing in mind hair can be cut clothes can be changed and the first few hours are critical. What pronouns would you expect the police to put out on the announcement. Bare in mind if you use the wrong one then the residents will be looking for children within in the wrong 50 percent of the population. But outing trans startus is a hate crime.

It's not a lie, pronouns are based on gender in pretty much every language on earth.

Duolingo tells me that it's correct to use 'es' (it) for a girl, because the word for girl (das Madchen) is neuter. So it appears to be correct for German at least.

But we don't have genders in the grammatical sense in English. We only use 'he' and 'she' for people, sometimes for animals, and occasionally for inanimate objects. We use 'he' for male people and animals and 'she' for female people and animals. We use 'it' for an animal where we don't know the sex, or it's not important, and 'they' for a person when we don't know their sex. So the pronouns in English are based on sex, not gender. The exception to this is for some objects (like ships) which are sometimes referred to as 'she' (but never, as far as I am aware, as 'he').

So when you say "gender" you are talking about something you only know by asking a person?

That's not how pronouns work and not how I use them. They are based on perceived sex.

Do you think it's acceptable to use racist slurs, or derogatory terms based on someone's sexuality as long as they aren't present?

jeez louise what out and out snow flakery

way to downplay actual racist and sexist abuse. someone being able to identify your sex is NOT the same as racist abuse

give your head a wobble

Presumably because that matches her gender

ooh ooh JJ

what are the characteristics of a female gender? how do I know if i've got one?

come on, answer, help a girl woman what ever out

Presumably because that matches her gender.

That's irrelevant. Pronouns belong to the describer, not the described.

Exciting isn't it, what young people are doing. I suspect many second wave radical feminists such as Dworkin and Firestone would heartily approve. How can gender continue to function as a system of social control based on physical sex if there are a near infinite number of genders?

Because unfortunately (genuinely) it's unlikely that this will be effective in abolishing sex-based discrimination. At the end of all this genderism, women will still find themselves the second sex in a chromosomally determined caste system. It doesn't matter one jot what 'gender' you identify with - in the real world, structural sexism will still discriminate against pregnant women, mothers etc. Male athletes will still be faster and stronger than female athletes. Etc.

Yes come on jj you're here waffling on about gender when the rest of us are talking about sex - you'll definitely be able to give us a meaningful definition of your Favourite and Best and Most Real and Useful Concept Ever!

[quote jj1968]@EvenSupposing

So what is the word for the person who gestated you?[/quote]
She's my mother. In both the sense that she gestated me and raised me. Had I been adopted I would have a birth mother and an adoptive mother (and probably a foster mother) and I would work out from context which meaning was being asked for in conversation 'Is it your mother's birthday next week?' versus 'Do your mother or father have glaucoma?'

Is this complex?

What @ErrolTheDragon said.

Should we refuse to use someone's married name, should we insist on referring to someone as your adopted parent rather than your mother, should we refuse to use the term gay and only use male homosexual when referring to someone etc. We modify our language for the comfort and dignity of others all the time, it's called being polite.

We do these things, and correct ourselves when we're wrong, not only to be polite. We do so because it's the truth, and we are correcting ourselves if we make a mistake.

Whereas in the trans demands it's the other way around. We are using the correct vocabulary and being told to lie instead. That's actually quite rude.

It's rude, it's stigmatising, it makes people feel uncomfortable and unwelcome, potentially outs them and at worst opens them up to be a target of transphobic abuse. I don't really care about an argument about equivalence, it's rude, end of.

End of. Snort. Don't be silly. Refusing to be forced to call people by the wrong sex isn't 'rude'.

And stop trying to make this about individuals. It's nothing of the sort. It's about being able to define women as a political class, a biological class and a linguistic class.

And I'm quite sure, for some people, it is entirely 'unwelcome'.

'Rude' 🤣

you'll definitely be able to give us a meaningful definition of your Favourite and Best and Most Real and Useful Concept Ever!

i love playing 'watch the genderist avoid explaining their beliefs as they don't want to admit how fucking sexist they are' it's one of my best games

but I expect jj 's beliefs aren't sexist AT ALL and they're currently typing out a water tight non sexist definition of 'female gender'

@jj1968

There are over a hundred genders according to the bbc

Exciting isn't it, what young people are doing. I suspect many second wave radical feminists such as Dworkin and Firestone would heartily approve. How can gender continue to function as a system of social control based on physical sex if there are a near infinite number of genders?

Well in my experience in the Brave New World everyone remembers how many sexes there are when an arse needs wiping or a surrogate or prostitute is required So no.

And if Dworkin agreed with this shit I would disagree with her. I tell you what though, if you can convert Datun I'll be impressed.

Honestly. It's the height of enough. Lol.

Women wanting to define themselves politically? Ruuuude.

So when you say "gender" you are talking about something you only know by asking a person?

You can probably usually make a good guess, but asking someone if you're unsure is fine.

Duolingo tells me that it's correct to use 'es' (it) for a girl, because the word for girl (das Madchen) is neuter. So it appears to be correct for German at least.

Not quite right. True, it is "das Maedchen", but only because it has the suffix "-chen" which is always neutral, like the other diminutive, "-lein". Die Frau, the woman, can become "das Frauelein" and der Mann, the man, can become "das Maennchen".

@Whatwouldscullydo

jj

If you had to speak to the police becuase your child was missing, and bearing in mind hair can be cut clothes can be changed and the first few hours are critical. What pronouns would you expect the police to put out on the announcement. Bare in mind if you use the wrong one then the residents will be looking for children within in the wrong 50 percent of the population. But outing trans startus is a hate crime.

If my child used pronouns different to those assigned at birth then I would expect the police to use those pronouns, however I would not object to them making clear my child is trans, which isn't a hate crime btw.

Imagine a child has run away, the most usual reason for a child going missing, and part of the reason they were distressed was their gender identity, do you think misgendering them would get them home sooner?