BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

[OhHolyJesus]

I mean I'm not surprised but Bitesize is used by schools through the country as a supposed reliable, unbiased source of education material.

mobile.twitter.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1319025713475952641?fbclid=IwAR0rTBD2j5PKOeTKvYSSX90c4RUDmJDo7Zg613qnDBXNaAncv3J8epYWLSQ

You can complain here:

www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint

Or email your MP and cc MPs Safe Schools Alliance on info@safeschoolsallianceuk.

In the tweet thread there are some people already complaining. I'm not a defund the BBC kind of person but I can see why license fee layers are questioning what the BBC are doing with their money (there is a website 'BBC complaints' that's all about biased Brexit coverage).

I think knowing you were looking for a boy or girl would get them home sooner.

Confusing the issue with make pronouns fir a little girl would just confuse the matter.

And how would anyone observe a trans child if they changed the clothes and hair? There would literally be nothing to identify them as trans.

You would have ro ve honest about the sex of the child

@ErrolTheDragon

Exciting isn't it, what young people are doing. I suspect many second wave radical feminists such as Dworkin and Firestone would heartily approve. How can gender continue to function as a system of social control based on physical sex if there are a near infinite number of genders?

Because unfortunately (genuinely) it's unlikely that this will be effective in abolishing sex-based discrimination. At the end of all this genderism, women will still find themselves the second sex in a chromosomally determined caste system. It doesn't matter one jot what 'gender' you identify with - in the real world, structural sexism will still discriminate against pregnant women, mothers etc. Male athletes will still be faster and stronger than female athletes. Etc.

I agree it's not the end of patriarchy, I honestly don't believe that is possible without also ending capitalism. I think it;s quite likely that those born physically female would still face oppression and I think its also likely that more feminine gender expressions would continue to face oppression. But it would certainly blow a big hole in it, a step forward I think.

You are assuming they ran away. What if they were taken. Shoved into some joggers and a t shirt . Hair shaved or put up under a hat...

She's my mother. In both the sense that she gestated me and raised me. Had I been adopted I would have a birth mother and an adoptive mother

So you can have a birth mother or an adoptive mother, despite biology. Bit like you can have a trans woman and a non trans woman. Either these words and concepts are set in stone or they aren't.

You can probably usually make a good guess, but asking someone if you're unsure is fine

How would you guess? Could you give some characteristics which would help identify whether they prefer he / she / xir / far?

How do you ask someone if you don't know them and have never and will never speak to them?

guys guys, I don't think jj understands the difference between sex and gender. Who wants to tell them?

You can probably usually make a good guess, but asking someone if you're unsure is fine.

W was hat am I basing my guess on? Come to that, what gender am I? I am a woman, I know that because I am an adult human female. How do I work out what my gender is?

Imagine a child has run away, the most usual reason for a child going missing, and part of the reason they were distressed was their gender identity, do you think misgendering them would get them home sooner?

I'd have thought that both the child's sex and their gender presentation would need to be made clear. (Which isn't what's happened in the case of escaped sexually violent male prisoners, in some infamous cases)

For "W was hat" read "what"!

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

You can probably usually make a good guess, but asking someone if you're unsure is fine

How would you guess? Could you give some characteristics which would help identify whether they prefer he / she / xir / far?

How do you ask someone if you don't know them and have never and will never speak to them?

Ask someone who does know them.

you're used the word gender twice since my post asking for clarification jj and still not shown your working

how are we defining a 'female gender'?

what are some example characteristics of someone who has one?

How would you guess? Could you give some characteristics which would help identify whether they prefer he / she / xir / far?

I'm still hopeful for some guidance on this?

Ask someone who does know them.

I meant if they were complete stranger. If you are in the city centre and see an adult human female wearing an amazing hoody and want to describe them to a friend eg "I saw this [person?] in town [pronoun] was wearing...."

@Whatwouldscullydo

You are assuming they ran away. What if they were taken. Shoved into some joggers and a t shirt . Hair shaved or put up under a hat...

Well if their abucter chose to alter or mask their gender or physical sex then that renders the problem pretty meaningless anyway, lots of young children could easily be mistaken for the other sex if gender signifiers were changed.

Thankfully situations like this are incredibly rare and it's far more likely they ran away, possibly because everyone kept misgendering them.

I have asked myself and I don't know how to answer!

Help me out jj, how do I know what my gender is?

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

How would you guess? Could you give some characteristics which would help identify whether they prefer he / she / xir / far?

I'm still hopeful for some guidance on this?

Ask someone who does know them.

I meant if they were complete stranger. If you are in the city centre and see an adult human female wearing an amazing hoody and want to describe them to a friend eg "I saw this [person?] in town [pronoun] was wearing...."

Is their gender even relevant in that situation. But I presume you'd probably guess, that's okay, no harm done, if you ever meet them and you got it wrong then they can correct you.

@testing987654321

I have asked myself and I don't know how to answer!

Help me out jj, how do I know what my gender is?

Well I could give you details of someone you could talk to about it. There's a three year waiting list though I'm afraid.

But I presume you'd probably guess

But guess based on what? You've said it isn't sex.

What is gender?

Thankfully situations like this are incredibly rare and it's far more likely they ran away, possibly because everyone kept misgendering them

Perhaps that indicates that a course of action dependant on others playing along over learning to come to terms with reality is perhaps not the best thing?

The only people obliged to care for, love, or have responsibility for a child is the family. Eveeyone else has their own shit to deal with and their own responsibilities.

@Malahaha

Should we refuse to use someone's married name, should we insist on referring to someone as your adopted parent rather than your mother, should we refuse to use the term gay and only use male homosexual when referring to someone etc. We modify our language for the comfort and dignity of others all the time, it's called being polite.

We do these things, and correct ourselves when we're wrong, not only to be polite. We do so because it's the truth, and we are correcting ourselves if we make a mistake.

Whereas in the trans demands it's the other way around. We are using the correct vocabulary and being told to lie instead. That's actually quite rude.

The correct vocabulary is in a constant state of flux. Times change, so does language.

Wow, it's that complicated that you can't explain to me how I know what my gender is? Yet the BBC are teaching 100 genders to children?

I think I'll stick to using sex-based pronouns. And thanks for reminding me that I need to complain to the BBC.

So you can have a birth mother or an adoptive mother, despite biology. Bit like you can have a trans woman and a non trans woman. Either these words and concepts are set in stone or they aren't.

No, not despite biology. Because of biology.

Go to your first meeting with your caseworker to become an adoptive parent and tell them that, upon adopting a child, you will BECOME the biological parent of that child. In fact, history will be rewritten and the birth parents will no longer exist and you will always have been the child's biological parents and that, in medical situations where it matters, you will not disclose that you are not the biological parent.

You wouldn't make it past the first meeting.

What is gender?

yeah, I mean jj is completely cool with coming here and calling people rude for not prioritising the gender of others over their sex

I'm sure jj wouldn't make poorly founded arguments. so they must be totally able to give that water tight none sexist definition of gender i was talking about earlier

We haven't eveb had a definition of trans yet from the experts.

How do we explain to our children, when we don't have any definitions to work with...