BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

[OhHolyJesus]

I mean I'm not surprised but Bitesize is used by schools through the country as a supposed reliable, unbiased source of education material.

mobile.twitter.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1319025713475952641?fbclid=IwAR0rTBD2j5PKOeTKvYSSX90c4RUDmJDo7Zg613qnDBXNaAncv3J8epYWLSQ

You can complain here:

www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint

Or email your MP and cc MPs Safe Schools Alliance on info@safeschoolsallianceuk.

In the tweet thread there are some people already complaining. I'm not a defund the BBC kind of person but I can see why license fee layers are questioning what the BBC are doing with their money (there is a website 'BBC complaints' that's all about biased Brexit coverage).

Y y @testing987654321

I have noticed "female objects" tend to be things men have invented to get inside, which says it all. In the case of boats they also give us the terrible misogynistic pun of being "full of seamen"

I can’t even be bothered to explain any more, as there literally isn’t anything I can write here that you won’t disbelieve, twist, ignore or obfuscate, JJ.

Have a fab evening, I’m out

@RuffleCrow

You're being diseingenous *@bessica*. As a bisexual woman myself, I can categorically state that "gender identity" has about as much to do with sexuality as eating biscuits. However, unlike eating biscuits and being bisexual, it forces everyone else to tell Big Lies daily, under the pretence of "being kind". I'm interested to know where you'd draw the line at the lies you're happy to be forced to tell? Should we be legally compelled to make ugly people supermodels? Should anorexics be told they're as fat as they think they are? Should we all say the world is flat so we don't upset the Flatearthers?!

Should we refuse to use someone's married name, should we insist on referring to someone as your adopted parent rather than your mother, should we refuse to use the term gay and only use male homosexual when referring to someone etc. We modify our language for the comfort and dignity of others all the time, it's called being polite.

Whats impolite about correctly sexing?

Whats offensive about sex. We all have one. Should we be upset?

@terryleather

So using "he" towards a male with a trans identity or failing to remember to use some made up non-binary pronoun has exactly the same equivalence as the four letter racial slur starting with a "p" and the six letter one starting with an "n"?

Really?

It's rude, it's stigmatising, it makes people feel uncomfortable and unwelcome, potentially outs them and at worst opens them up to be a target of transphobic abuse. I don't really care about an argument about equivalence, it's rude, end of.

Names are changeable jj, sex is not.

Male homosexual and gay are used interchangeably because they have the same mèaning.

What is "polite" about forcing someone to tell a lie?

Goodness! Show me a woman - any woman - who hasn't had way worse than that shouted after her in the street at some point, just for being female in public. Nothing to see, move along, no hate crime there, just a woman being verbally abused as she must expect to be, going out with obvious breasts and that.

Try shouting misogynist abuse at a female copper and see what the response is.

Men who transition remain in the masons which is men only. Why is calling them a man trabsphobic but staying in a man only club ok?

Its a bit well...picking and choosing isn't it?

@RuffleCrow

Names are changeable jj, sex is not.

Male homosexual and gay are used interchangeably because they have the same mèaning.

What is "polite" about forcing someone to tell a lie?

It's not a lie, pronouns are based on gender in pretty much every language on earth.

I read the BBC link and saw the various pronouns people might use (ze, zir). Has anyone come across this in real life? I find it very strange that the BBC are teaching, as fact, stuff that most people think is ridiculous.

My MP didn't even know what "cis" meant, which was interesting given he has considered the issue. How did he miss that, have people stopped using it?

Those are such weird examples.

My married name is my name - fact. Use it, don't use it, I'm not coercing a lie out of you.

An adoptive mother is a mother, again not a lie but just one of the meanings of the word mother - a female person who reared you and has parental responsibility. It's clearly distinct from its other meaning - person who gestated you - and adoptive parents know this and would correct if circumstances required this for example in medical situations. So again, no lie, no coercion.

Gay man and homosexual male are synonyms. You can use either although the latter might be a bit formal for, 'Shall I set Alan up with my friend Sophie?' 'No, Alan is a male homosexual'. So again, no lie, just different registers.

Really weird examples.

So being "rude" is equivalent, thanks for clarifying.

@EvenSupposing

So what is the word for the person who gestated you?

In English, gendered pronouns are used to refer to people according to their sex. For clarity. You're welcome to start inventing pronouns which work on a different basis, and lie about your sex, but others are free to ignore you and instead use words which accord with biological reality, as they always have.

I have noticed "female objects" tend to be things ...

Yep, get inside, drive, ride ... can't think why I find it so offensive!

Are you going to answer JJ.
Whats offensive about using eyes amd correctly observing the sex of a person?

Why is the word man.or woman not a state of biological reality but an insult?

We modify our language for the comfort and dignity of others all the time, it's called being polite

So in the case where a woman had been assaulted by a trans woman, who's dignity is being protected when the victim is constantly told by the judge to refer to their male assailant as "she"?

Always useful to keep an eye on the purpose of the thread. To ask why the BBC (ie adults) are using Bitesize to gaslight children into using this form of compelled speech? It's great that adults / parents are fighting back at this level of indoctrination of the young. For too long lobby groups have been allowed to gaslight with their preferred ideology. They're now being told to back off and leave children alone.

What is "polite" about forcing someone to tell a lie?

It's not a lie, pronouns are based on gender. And it's rude because people find it upsetting and it makes them uncomfortable.

For a period of time when I was a kid and trying desperately to ignore my gender dysphoria and fit in as a boy a bunch of other kids took to using a feminised version of my name and referring to me as she. It was bullying. Why would you want to be like that? Would you like to be treated like that? Why not just be polite?

I do wonder whether some of those kids have grown up to be gender critical and are now going round misgendering trans people in an attempt to bully and belittle them. Pronouns are often used to bully, if you don't know that then that's probably because you're pretty gender conforming and so it's never happened to you.

Try shouting misogynist abuse at a female copper and see what the response is.

Careful now, you're presuming the gender of the officer here, how can we know how they identify without checking their pronouns? Wouldn't want to be "rude" and "stigmatising" would we..?

Really weird examples.

That's because there are no genuine ones.

I have corrected people at times to make sure my correct title is used on documentation. And I always try to use Miss or Mrs according to how someone wants to be addressed. I do tend to get it wrong though, my brain really struggles to remember the correct one. Fortunately, most women's self-esteem isn't damaged by the odd mistake.

Even if people want to be known by certain words, it's incredibly damaging if a culture is built around it which bases self-esteem and mental health on other people using those words.

It's not a lie, pronouns are based on gender

No, they are not. They are based on the sex a person is perceived to be.

It's not a lie, pronouns are based on gender.

You keep saying this. Can you explain what you mean by it? I have always used pronouns based on the sex I perceive someone to be. So a very masculine looking woman I know who is easily mistaken for a man is still "she".

I'd also like to know what makes a ship female.

Snap fine!

I find myself calling Blaire White "she", BW obviously passes some subconscious criteria that most trans people who say they are women just don't.

@jj1968

Because pronouns are what you use when someones not even there

This isn't true, you might indicate that's hers/his to a waiter for example when food is served.

Do you think one person should he given the power to control the conversation even when not around

Do you think it's acceptable to use racist slurs, or derogatory terms based on someone's sexuality as long as they aren't present?

The waiter will have no idea of the pronouns dictated by random people having a meal. 'Xir, they and they ordered the pizza, they ordered carbonara and she and hir ordered risotto.'

Ps, using standard sex-based pronouns about people who aren't even present is not quite the same as racism or homophobia . Victim complex much? These are serious issues and to trivialise them to be at the level of forgetting to call someone zie is disgraceful.