BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

[OhHolyJesus]

I mean I'm not surprised but Bitesize is used by schools through the country as a supposed reliable, unbiased source of education material.

mobile.twitter.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1319025713475952641?fbclid=IwAR0rTBD2j5PKOeTKvYSSX90c4RUDmJDo7Zg613qnDBXNaAncv3J8epYWLSQ

You can complain here:

www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint

Or email your MP and cc MPs Safe Schools Alliance on info@safeschoolsallianceuk.

In the tweet thread there are some people already complaining. I'm not a defund the BBC kind of person but I can see why license fee layers are questioning what the BBC are doing with their money (there is a website 'BBC complaints' that's all about biased Brexit coverage).

@Swallowzandamazons

You don't see us as human, do you JJ?

And of course, it's not about the spaces at all. Otherwise the third space would be campaigned for, across-the-board. It's about the women in those space. We are necessary to the space.

@OldCrone

jj1968: You've been going at this what 4/5 years now? During that time we've had one of the most right wing Tory cabinets in living memory, Trump in the Whitehouse, Putin in the Kremlin, almost the entire national media on your side from Murdoch to the Morning Star, you've got billionaires, barristers and baronesses, admittedly mostly washed up celebrities galore, factions in all the main political parties, everyone from Evangelicals to militant trade unionists, a solid flow of cash and what's been achieved? The government recently announced they are making it easier to change your legal sex. If that's the best you can do with the wind in your sails then victory seems far from assured I'm afraid.

Also jj1968:
And perhaps most pertinently of all, why is every single institution of the Patriarchy currently at war with trans people, and not just trans women, but trans men, non binary people, pronoun usage, all of it? You may not think trans people threaten the Patriarchy, but the Patriarchy itself clearly disagrees.

You seem a little confused jj. Or are there two of you?

Not in the slightest, Trump, Putin, fundamentalist Islam, the Catholic Church, The Evangelical movement, the Murdoch Press, the rest of the Tory press and much of the Tory Party, the men's rights movement, the far right, wherever you look patriarchal institutions are attacking trans rights. That despite that they are still losing gives me cause for hope.

Under your system a trans women facing violence at some point in her life in a men's space seems virtually assured, whereas the chance of a woman facing violence in a women's space due to trans inclusion is millions to one

What is it with this criteria of sufficient trauma before consideration of a reprieve from facing males nonsense ?

If we say no. We mean no. Its not open to discussion abd having to declare reasoning band men decide whether or not to authorise.

What gives you the right to decide that for us?

If trans people tonight decided to fund raise and build and set up services exclusively fir you wed be there. Helping. Donating. Signing whatever petition you needed us to

But you know that don't you ...

You rely solely on the victim status you think you can gain from nasty women ( people you cant even bring yourself to define you hate us that much ) saying no

What do you have against a campaign ti make make shelters safer and/or setting up one for trans people? Is it not validating enough?

I have yet to see any evidence that trans women in women's toilets or changing rooms are a threat

They are at least the same threat as men.

should trans women risk sexual assault and violence and use spaces which are not designed for them to protect a very small percentage of women from feeling uncomfortable

Should women risk sexual assault and violence and allow men into spaces not designed for them to protect a small percentage of men from feeling uncomfortable?

I'd like to see proper secure spaces, enclosed toilets with sinks for example

I'm fairly certain that most women would encourage your campaign for the addition of mixed sex toilets to the current provision.

@Datun

Five minutes ago it was womxn. 🙄

We have natal women, womyn born womyn, cis women, biological women, menstruators, chest feeders, cervix havers and, er, birthing people.

The desperation to not say what we are.

Woman.

Interestingly, I haven't heard menopausal women reduced to a description. Although I strongly suspect it's because they just get forgotten about altogether...

Apologies I thought you'd know that womyn was the term the original feminist anti-trans campaigners adopted in the US as in the Michigan Womyns Festival.

So again it's a balance, should trans women risk sexual assault and violence and use spaces which are not designed for them to protect a very small percentage of women from feeling uncomfortable. I'm not sure that's so fair personally.

A minute ago it was transwomen who were a very small percentage. So rare, in fact, that it would be a yearly occurrence.

Now it's the other way round?

You expect women to have their spaces become mixed sex because of something that happens on, according to you, an annual basis?

You can't get your story straight JJ.

Apologies I thought you'd know that womyn was the term the original feminist anti-trans campaigners adopted in the US as in the Michigan Womyns Festival.

Oh yes, the festival that was destroyed and shut down because it wouldn't admit me. identifying as women. Targeted with quite appalling violence.

Shame you don't know about that.

If trans people tonight decided to fund raise and build and set up services exclusively fir you wed be there. Helping. Donating. Signing whatever petition you needed us to

I don't believe you. I think the second those spaces attracted mainstream funding you'd attack them for eating into the depserately shrinking VAWG sector's budget. The fact is trans refues would be half empty most of the time and they wouldn't be able to attract enough housing benefit claims to keep them open. The women working in the VAWG sector don't want this, they want as much funding as can be made available and to manage trans inclusion on a case by case basis as they have done for decades in some instances. Why don't you care what women who actually run the refuge's want?

men*

"So again it's a balance, should trans women risk sexual assault and violence and use spaces which are not designed for them to protect a very small percentage of women from feeling uncomfortable."

Firstly, I have NEVER heard of a case where a trans woman has been assaulted or attacked in a male bathroom. I have heard of a few cases where a trans woman has been attacked in a female bathroom.

More to the point, though, I find it very offensive that the risk of male violence and sexual assault is only taken seriously when the victims are trans women. Here's how the conversation seems to go:
women: we are scared of men in the toilets.
trans rights activists: well, suck it up, rape's going to happen anyway, nothing you can do about it, there isn't a law banning men from going into the bathroom. Why does no one every say 'tough luck' to trans women?

It's also really shitty how women's concerns about safety and dignity are brushed aside as being 'uncomfortable'. I had the misfortune of having to use a single sex toilet the other day and a very drunk man talked to me through the door and began hitting on me. I was really scared he would try to get in, and I waited for ages until he left. This isn't just about 'discomfort' - when I was a kid, one of my friends was sexually assaulted in a unisex toilet.

And finally I would argue there is no 'balance' to be had. You don't get to come into female spaces. They're not for you. If you want balance, go take it up with the men and get them to stop behaving so badly.

Apologies I thought you'd know that womyn was the term the original feminist anti-trans campaigners adopted in the US as in the Michigan Womyns Festival.

I'm not sure they were anti-trans. Just female separatist. Still, if they were anti-trans, let us note that one of the main trans campaigners against Michfest murdered two of the lesbians who ran the festival, and their son.

They clearly showed excellent judgement in excluding that transwoman from the festival, didn't they?

@jj1968

If trans people tonight decided to fund raise and build and set up services exclusively fir you wed be there. Helping. Donating. Signing whatever petition you needed us to

I don't believe you. I think the second those spaces attracted mainstream funding you'd attack them for eating into the depserately shrinking VAWG sector's budget. The fact is trans refues would be half empty most of the time and they wouldn't be able to attract enough housing benefit claims to keep them open. The women working in the VAWG sector don't want this, they want as much funding as can be made available and to manage trans inclusion on a case by case basis as they have done for decades in some instances. Why don't you care what women who actually run the refuge's want?

Barrel and bottom of.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I have yet to see any evidence that trans women in women's toilets or changing rooms are a threat

They are at least the same threat as men.

should trans women risk sexual assault and violence and use spaces which are not designed for them to protect a very small percentage of women from feeling uncomfortable

Should women risk sexual assault and violence and allow men into spaces not designed for them to protect a small percentage of men from feeling uncomfortable?

I'd like to see proper secure spaces, enclosed toilets with sinks for example

I'm fairly certain that most women would encourage your campaign for the addition of mixed sex toilets to the current provision.

I don't believe trans inclusion is a threat. It's normal in most comparable countries. It's been happening here for decades. If it was a risk there would be endless cases to point out, you have about five, in the whole world, over about two decades.

Why don't you care what women who actually run the refuge's want

Why don't you care what the women who seek refuge want? Refuges are not run for the benefit of the women managing them. They are run for the benefit of their clients, the women subjected to domestic violence.

Leave women alone, JJ. Your constant contradictions, your framing female victims as nasty perpetrators. It's all so desperate.

We are not here to validate you.

Our spaces are for women. Campaign for your own. Women did. We used front rooms. You do the same.

The fact is trans refues would be half empty most of the time and they wouldn't be able to attract enough housing benefit claims to keep them open.

So transwomen don't actually need refuges. They just WANT space in women's refuges, just to....what? Explain.

JJ, you thought that a man uploading naked photos of himself and boasting about sexually intimidating women in their own shelter, made him a victim.

You have absolutely no idea about women's spaces and shelters. Your only concern was for the violent man predating on the women in them. You have no idea at all.

It's quite clear that JJ does not believe women are human, do you sweetie?

JJ it matters not that you think TW are not a threat. Women say NO to male bodied people in our spaces. It is so disgusting, that women are made to justify ourselves over and over for wanting single SEX spaces. Can't you see that when you ignore our NO, you are proving our need for them?

Dana Rivers. Killed two women and their son. Three murders. And this case has only come up on this thread because jj badmouthed Michfest as "anti-trans".

www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-famed-trans-right-activist-accused-of-violent-murder-of-female-couple-their-son-dana-rivers/

Back to the original point - why is the BBC promoting this? They are supposed to be fair, balanced and factual.

Barrel and bottom of.

It's true I'm afraid. A lot of women in the sector are really pissed off with you. They think you're distracting from the true problems facing the sector which is the funding crisis, putting survivors at risk by creating unnecessary fears and are deeply insulted that you think they would put women at risk when few of you know anything about how the sector actually operates

@Yesterdaysleftovers

Back to the original point - why is the BBC promoting this? They are supposed to be fair, balanced and factual.

Indeed. Fortunately there are thousands and thousands of women who will challenge every instance.

@jj1968

Barrel and bottom of.

It's true I'm afraid. A lot of women in the sector are really pissed off with you. They think you're distracting from the true problems facing the sector which is the funding crisis, putting survivors at risk by creating unnecessary fears and are deeply insulted that you think they would put women at risk when few of you know anything about how the sector actually operates

Oh my mistake. There was a whole new subbasement under that barrel 🤣

How can it be that separate refuges for transwomen would be half-empty half of the time, and yet that the refuge sector is dependant on housing benefit claims for transwomen clients in order to stay open?