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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Do any of you dress etc 'gender free' or have tried to in the past?

353 replies

SoulofanAggron · 21/10/2020 12:23

I'm going a bit more 'gender free' in my look. Did try it once years ago for a couple of years. Have any of you tried it/done it?

I know a lot of women have quite a 'gender free' look anyway.

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SoulofanAggron · 23/10/2020 17:40

All clothing is gender free as I've not seen any clothing with a penis or vagina attached.

@AvocadoBathroom That's sex, not gender.

All of the clothes I bought are 'women's' though I don't think they're massively fitted in terms of having a waist etc. But the tops aren't baggy either hopefully. I don't like baggy stuff.

I do wear leggings under my dresses etc as I don't think tights last the way they used to, and activewear for any exercise I might do.

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CousinKrispy · 23/10/2020 18:14

Those look lovely, OP.

The idea that all shorts or trousers are tight and uncomfortable is just as laughable as the notion that all skirts are. Both garments can be cut in a variety of ways with a variety of ease (the degree of looseness). I visit too many charity shops and thus have lots of examples of all types of nether garments and am happy to cycle or garden in any of them.

I saw a woman in the park jogging in a sari recently which was lovely.

TheChampagneGalop · 23/10/2020 19:17

Sari jogging! How stylish!
Maybe I should wear some sporty tunic with leggings next time I go jogging, amazon style.

thefeministmother · 23/10/2020 19:27

I've been known to wear the occasional tie. Bow and Windsor, but I wouldn't necessarily describe myself dress sense as gender free.

Just a woman who looks good in a tie

SomeSmotheringDreams · 23/10/2020 20:57

I'm more surprised by where some of you are seeing all these comfortable, light weight , linen shorts.

What aspect surprises you? Do you live a long way North perhaps? Is there a certain demographic amongst your friends who go for that style? I dont know anyone who wears tight fitting knee length shorts.

Christmasfairy2020 · 23/10/2020 21:46

No. High waisted Jean's and a vest top and cardi or hoody. I like dresses but I only wear if going out in an evening

alexdgr8 · 23/10/2020 22:52

OP, why do you say that about Bowie.
i've never heard or read people say that, the highly offensive thing about him, that you state people say about him.
iam not going to repeat it.
where did you get that from.

alexdgr8 · 23/10/2020 23:00

further to my previous query, re OP on
Wed -21 -Oct -20 at 18:16:43,
last paragraph

DidoLamenting · 23/10/2020 23:01

@SomeSmotheringDreams

I'm more surprised by where some of you are seeing all these comfortable, light weight , linen shorts.

What aspect surprises you? Do you live a long way North perhaps? Is there a certain demographic amongst your friends who go for that style? I dont know anyone who wears tight fitting knee length shorts.

As I said before I was surprised that several of the women on a tour of Laos and Cambodia were wearing tight , knee length denim shorts.They weren't my friends.

Also noticed this summer on a particularly hot week in the Scottish Borders- they stood out as being so uncomfortable and inappropriate for the weather. Not friends - just people in the street.

Why the need to be so aggressive?

SoulofanAggron · 23/10/2020 23:05

@alexdgr8 Others in the thread mentioned it before me. After he died it came out that he raped a fourteen year old girl. www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/i-lost-my-virginity-to-david-bowie

Apologists say that's just what it was like in those days, but I don't think that's ok, and the performers would still've known some of the girls were underage (though they might claim they didn't.)

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SoulofanAggron · 23/10/2020 23:07

As I said before I was surprised that several of the women on a tour of Laos and Cambodia were wearing tight , knee length denim shorts.

@DidoLamenting I believe you of course but I haven't heard of this either. People do do uncomfortable things for fashion which is a shame.

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SoulofanAggron · 23/10/2020 23:10

Sorry, I should've said women in particular often feel they have to do uncomfortable things for fashion/beauty. I certainly have, even my body is deliberately gendered- I starved myself so as not to be as tall as my parents.

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FireUnderTheHand · 24/10/2020 04:06

Well some of us can't look 'gender free' without seriously distorting our bodies or moving from a location that is too hot to conceal a markedly female body shape.

My (new) hairstylist/colorist explained to me that I am feminine because I have long hair and he has seen me in a skirt once in 12 years (my former hairstylist/colorist has gotten sloppy, she is mad at me because I refused to put a TWAW sticker on my car). I wore the skirt as I had my menses and have endometriosis so I'm sorry (not sorry) that I can't wear pants/trousers/anything that squeezes during that time of the month. He on the other hand was wearing a ton of makeup, a sparkly pink women's t-shirt (fitted with darts for small breasts), skinny jeans, and large hoop earrings but did not find his own appearance to be feminine. Confirming his insistence that he is a man that likes pretty clothes and makeup I told him that he was wearing man's clothes because he is a man and that he looked fabulous (he really did) and then he said his pronouns were "he/him". He asked if he was too androgynous and I assured him that his body and full beard all but barred him from being androgynous - he was very pleased by that. Then I asked him what beyond my hair and stretchy skirt to cover my swollen and pain-wracked abdomen conveyed femininity and he apologized and then said "well really if not for the hair I guess you aren't that feminine". And then he said "good luck not being seen as feminine with that body". There it is in a nutshell. He was worried that as a 6' man with a beard that he would be seen as feminine or female - but steadfast in that my typical attire and 'masculine energy' (his words) that I am obviously a she regardless of what I may identify as and then he asked if I identified otherwise and apologized. I can't pick I am excluded (really IDGAF) because I am clearly a woman and a woman that looks like me can only be she/her because biology. Ha, funny that. Gender only works for males and male-passing as it always has done.

I don't worry if my clothes are feminine (they aren't... don't wear flowery or 'pretty' or animal prints or 'feminine' clocked colors) but my clothes are women's clothes as I have a very hourglass woman's body. I don't dress to signal or for anyone but myself.

Here's my answer OP, once upon a time I cared greatly about suppressing my socially imposed gender and my secondary sex characteristics but when I grew up I realized that gender is a social construct and that no matter what I do or how I dress I will be clocked as female and she/her. While I am happy to be female I reject gender and all of its nasty indications so endeavoring to be gender-free is just another label in the gender sphere signaling buying into gender and the trappings thereof.

Wear your pretty feminine clothes, or wear your new attire (also very nice but certainly not gender-free... gender-free would imply androgyny in most circles and your selections are leagues from androgynous apparel). Wear what you like and fuck everyone else and their opinions, that's my vote. Wine

Wanderingstars4238 · 24/10/2020 04:39

I tend to dress in ways that would be considered feminine and pretty most the time. I like FEELING pretty, and I want people to like what they see when they talk to me.
I'm visual, used to paint and draw a lot, and I like things to be nice looking. Impressing men isn't my goal most the time, but sometimes I don't mind getting some attention from them, too. Men and women's bodies are different and I don't have a problem with certain clothes emphasizing what I am.

SomeSmotheringDreams · 24/10/2020 08:28

Why the need to be so aggressive

Confused There was no aggresion. Just questions to understand why you might be seeing something different to the rest of us.

SusannaSpider · 24/10/2020 08:46

I often wear men's jackets, shirts, cufflinks, waistcoats and sometimes shoes. I started because I'm tall and men's fitted better, now I just like the look. I wear women's trousers though, usually close fitting, so not masculine styles. I very rarely wear skirts or dresses and never wear pink or lilac. I do like heels. Casual wear is always jeans.
My hair is long and blonde, I wear jewellery and make up (sometimes), so don't think I look masculine. But I'm not attempting to look gender free, I just wear what I like. Tbh, I always associate gender neutral clothing as being sensible and shapeless in dull colours and I'm not sure I'd want to be in such a dull world, like the pp I'm very visual...or very shallowGrin, but I like clothes and don't see that as conflicting with feminism.

SusannaSpider · 24/10/2020 08:54

Shorts are usually quite tight fitting and knee length, often denim

Tbf, mine always are. I don't like the look of loose flappy shorts. But I don't feel the heat, so denim is no problem. As for paddling in them, no they are not convenient, but the seas too bloody cold to go deeper than knee deep!

SusannaSpider · 24/10/2020 09:07

I'm wondering what a practical skirt outfit for excercise would look like. I don't think I've ever seen one.

DD's school can wear skorts, which are basically just skirts with small shorts underneath. Quite a few women who I play sport with wear them too. They are perfectly practical. Although I wouldn't wear them as I find them too short.
www.marksandspencer.com/girls-cotton-with-stretch-sports-skorts/p/clp60101933

ErrolTheDragon · 24/10/2020 11:20

The skirts we had for PE in the 70s were practical enough - opaque navy knickers under, perfectly decent, not restrictive of movement.

DDs girls secondary school allowed a choice of shorts (cycling or 'football' type) , skirt, skort or trackie bottoms.

RainingBatsAndFrogs · 24/10/2020 12:59

Tennis players and skaters wear short skirts.

Stay123 · 24/10/2020 13:04

Grew up in early 90s when it was all grunge so just wore jeans and plain top with boots. Most blokes wore the same as me. Now wear tracksuit bottoms and t shirts so I probably so look gender neutral but do it for comfort, not into making a big statement.

tenlittlecygnets · 24/10/2020 15:45

What's gender free??? A smock? A tunic?

I wear a dress when I want to, jeans when I want to ... just wear what you want to.

midgebabe · 24/10/2020 15:56

Yes, people should wear what they want to. People should also recognise what they want to is influenced by the society we live in. And when people start to realise that societal impact and pressure is bigger and more harmful to women than they realised, I guess a bit of support in trying to break free could be offered.

SoulofanAggron · 24/10/2020 16:38

Well some of us can't look 'gender free' without seriously distorting our bodies or moving from a location that is too hot to conceal a markedly female body shape.

@FireUnderTheHand That's sex, not gender. Gender would be if you wore something to emphasise it more than is necessary/inevitable. Your hairdresser I'd guess is a gay man? Unfortunately some of them are funny about women.

While I am happy to be female I reject gender and all of its nasty indications so endeavoring to be gender-free is just another label in the gender sphere signaling buying into gender and the trappings thereof.

It's the opposite, it's, as you say you mostly do, opting out of the whole thing. Refusing to buy in to gender.

@midgebabe Glad you get the idea.

Well, not all the stuff has come yet but already had comments from my bestie (ex partner.) 'What are you wearing?' And 'your pink is on the radiator in the front room.' Shock

I suppose after a few days he'll get used to it.

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DidoLamenting · 24/10/2020 16:46

And when people start to realise that societal impact and pressure is bigger and more harmful to women than they realised, I guess a bit of support in trying to break free could be offered

What's that supposed to mean? Who is meant to give support to whom?