Jk Rowling and trans issues... talk to me!

[bunters]

Ok mumsnet, please talk to me. I’ve noticed that the feminist section of mumsnet seems disproportionately preoccupied with trans issues and I’d like to understand it. I opened the feminism chat today and topic after topic related to trans this, gender that

It is an indisputable fact that women suffer horrific domestic violence in this country (and worldwide), at the hands of men. Women are regularly beaten, raped, controlled, murdered and otherwise abused by men every single day. It’s so standard that it barely makes news when it happens, unless the crime is truly shocking.

This whole trans hysteria feels to me like if the government were to start a huge campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of choking on peanuts, while ignoring the huge damage caused by alcohol and tobacco.

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights. With her money and popularity she could have done any number of things to help women in a huge way. What has this achieved, other than pitting feminists against each other? Even if you believe she has a point, surely you can see that whatever ‘danger’ trans people pose to women is minuscule compared to the very real danger men openly pose to women every day?

We all know that men have felt entitled to take what they want when they want for centuries, and they don’t need to dress as a woman to do it. The women gang raped to death (can you even imagine the horror) in India weren’t attacked by men in dresses. I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

When I look at my beautiful, tiny daughter I don’t worry about some trans person hurting her, I worry about the very likely situation when a man hurts her. In fact, I’d worry more that she’ll be trans and be hurt by someone before I’d worry about a trans person hurting her. When I walk alone at night somewhere, my mind isn’t imagining trans people waiting in dark doorways to rape me, it’s men. Men being bloody men.

If we accept that men don’t need to be trans and gain access to women’s spaces to hurt us, and we accept that trans people are way more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the population (and so really are in need of help and protection as much as women), why do trans issues continue to cause such anger?

And if you do feel justified, what tangible thing are you doing to help women, besides moaning on mumsnet and signing petitions?

This is the second "You're all wrong and need to listen to reason" post I've seen in 24 hours on here. I suspect that panic is starting to set in in some quarters (not ours).

Trans women are biological men

Reposting Rebecca Reilly Cooper's excellent site which explains Sex / Gender and GC feminism for any interested lurkers: sexandgenderintro.com/

@Datun

Or maybe OP wanted to learn more and will
Change her viewpoint.

I was all for mixed sex toilets at school, until
I read a thread on here about it and all the issues and I totally changed my mind.

Hallo OP please refrain from using the prefix cis. Thank you.

I hope you have found this thread helpful, lurkers too.

[quote OverTheRainbow88]@Datun

Or maybe OP wanted to learn more and will
Change her viewpoint.

I was all for mixed sex toilets at school, until
I read a thread on here about it and all the issues and I totally changed my mind.[/quote]
I have no doubt, that if she does go away and read the different threads that people are providing for her, she will change her mind.

Most people (unless they have a vested interest) do change their mind. In my opinion, you'd have to be very strange not to, to be honest.

What's not surprising is the number of people who want women to shut up about it.

Considering there's no clash of rights, that women's rights aren't going to be affected in any way whatsoever, some don't half work themselves up when we mention it, like Maya's thread last night advising to write to our MP's and similar threads. Like the violent thugs that disrupted a women's meeting so they couldn't go ahead. Like women's petitions being mass reported and taken down. Like #nodebate (until they lost, that is, then they demanded a debate).

Wouldn't need to derail every discussion and shut down women on social media platforms if there was no problem, would they?

there are those who refuse to accept people can be trans. They cannot imagine it as it so beyond their own experience that they will go to any length to deny their very valid but different life experience

this is such bollocks and a great example of deliberately not listening or not understanding what gc are saying at all.

transpeople exist, clearly - but you cant force us to accept that when a man says he feels like a woman he is actually a woman.

why cant you accept that?

Nah really? Didn't see that coming at all.

Maybe just let this thread drift? Nothing to see here.

@Quaagars

No empathy for the more vulnerable members of her own sex, but falling over herself to please the men who despise her.

See, this.
This is just one example of the type of scare mongering crap people just go at.
Who are you talking about?
What men?
Are you insinuating trans people? Or biological men?
Or just all men, that they just despise women full stop?
Now going to get accused of NAMALT, but it's exactly what it is - plays on insecurity and fears and gets people terrified, that everyone hates you as a woman (no they don't)
so by default trans people are people to be wary of, 'because men and they hate you. (or to use pp's words, despise you)
That's where the hate and fear on here seeps in.

What men? Have you been living under a rock these past five years? Every single man, and there are thousands, who pushes for Self ID is pushing for women to have our rights stripped away. They are pushing for children to be set on a pathway of lifelong medication that they do not need. And damn right I hate abusive men. Damn right I want to protect women and children from them. The question is, why don't you?

And damn right I hate abusive men

Doesn't everyone?! (Apart from abusive men themselves, maybe)
You've completely missed my point though.
The generalising, the fear stoking, the everybody hates you because you're a woman line...

and before anyone says that the personDatunis referring to is a one off, an anomaly, shouldn't have happened, they don't have a GRC - there is NOTHING stopping that person getting a GRC, their crimes against women won't disqualify them, they don't need to have surgery. Furthermore, the craven cowardice of those in positions of authority and those like the OP and her supporters on here are the reasons why that person was given free reign to so appallingly rape a woman and leave her unable to have children.

This is one of the things that has disillusioned me most. I used to argue we should be more inclusive, on the basis of the transmen and transwomen I knew, who honestly wouldn't have caused anyone physical harm. (Unfortunately I was too clueless and too internally misogynistic to think about the psychological harm to other women.) But the transwomen I knew wouldn't have turned up at a women's only swim hour aimed at making the swimming pool accessible to girls and women from strict religious families who couldn't attended mixed-sex sessions.

I took it completely for granted that if they were self-centred enough to go to such sessions, they would be asked to leave and that no-one would call the staff transphonic. I took it completely for granted that if a natal male sex offender had a GRC, they would still be kept out of female prisons.

I am very unhappy about what my new stance on the issue means for assimilated transwomen I love, but if trying to balance their welfare with the needs of our most vulnerable women means people take it as direction to stop valuing women entirely, what else can I do?

Is there an equivalent of 'Crimeline', where there is a short tv show with Police who give advice on crime prevention, report crimes etc?

This really needs repeating as the OP has figured out a sure way of assessing if there is are any threat at all to your personal safety out there:

1. If what appears to be a man approaches you, ask them if they identify as a non-masculine 'gender'. If the answer is 'yes', relax. They only capable of doing beautiful things.

OR/AND

1. If what appears to be a man approaches you, ask them if they experience suicidal thoughts. If the answer is 'yes', again relax. They are only capable of doing beautiful things.

The generalising, the fear stoking, the everybody hates you because you're a woman line...

thats so bizarre coming from someone who 'totally agreed' with that totally messed up nonsense about people refusing to accept people are trans they will go to any lengths to deny their valid but different life experience

i mean, that is the epitome of generalising, fear stoking, the 'they dont think i exist' lying bollocks - and you agreed with it.

@Quaagars

And damn right I hate abusive men

Doesn't everyone?! (Apart from abusive men themselves, maybe)
You've completely missed my point though.
The generalising, the fear stoking, the everybody hates you because you're a woman line...

Did I say everyone? No I didn't. I am specifically talking about the abusive men pushing this misogyny that people seem to think are all like Hayley Cropper.

"Most of us aren’t women in prison so why are we bothering to try to protect them from being housed physically male bodied individuals who have been convicted of serious sexual crimes?"

It seems to boil down to this really. OP is just bold enough to come out and say it, but this is what most women who are TRAs think, they will never themselves be in prison so who gives a damn what happens to the women who will.

That you would argue that "JK Rowling has started a bizarre war" suggests to me that you are not starting from a position of good faith.

However, if you are genuinely looking for understanding, I would say this... women here are not compelled to perform intellectual labour for anyone, least of all anyone demanding that they justify themselves.

FWR is like an encyclopædia of amazingly well-argued and thoughtful posts on women's rights. You just need to start reading.

Men being bloody men

You really are this close to getting it, you really are. Do do that reading, won't you?

@Dogsareus

I completely agree with you, OP.

And I have read many of the threads on here. Half of the comments get deleted because of blatant transphobia.

Look back through history and you'll see a group of people making very similar arguments with a similar level of obsession, whilst simultaneously ignoring or talking way less about more pressing issues: the homophobes.

Sadly people don't like change, don't like to accept those with a completely different outlook on life. Just like there were people who refused to accept others could be gay, there are those who refuse to accept people can be trans. They cannot imagine it as it so beyond their own experience that they will go to any length to deny their very valid but different life experience.

If you've met trans people, you know they pose zero risk to anyone else. And those that do are a minority, just like there are Catholics who rape children, or Muslims who commit crimes, etc. You know the story. Marginalised groups get painted in the same light by those who dislike 'different'.

And I have read many of the threads on here. Half of the comments get deleted because of blatant transphobia.

Half the comments eh? That's a lot of posts. Most threads must be like swiss cheese in that case

And I have read many of the threads on here. Half of the comments get deleted because of blatant transphobia.

Well, like many before them, hyperbole is their ‘go to’!

This phrase ranks up there with ‘deny my existence’.