Man making skirts non-gender

[SusannaSpider]

Sorry, stupid title.

But what do you think of this link? Man likes to wear skirts and heels to work, still definitely a man, not a transwoman, not a sexual fetish, he just thinks skirts should be non gender, likes the style etc.

I just find this really refreshing, how things should be really, Men should be able to chose more traditionally feminine clothes, whilst still being a men.
www.boredpanda.com/confident-man-wears-heels-skirt-markbryan911/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=BPFacebook

Madly jealous that he can pull off the high heels so elegantly. I am a birth gendered woman (I invented that) and I can't even get them on my feet

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I was trying to find some clothing as a birthday present for DH today. In a busy cathedral city, the only mens clothes shops I could find were M&S, Debenhams and Fat Face. And fuck me those clothes are boring.

same story when shopping for my DS's. I don't want to dress them exclusively in brown or blue.

I do feel for men on this subject. The clothes that are generally available to them are incredibly, stultifyingly, mind bendingly boring. It sounds wanky, but putting together outfits, choosing make up and jewellery is quite a creative process for me. it kept my shit together during lockdown

expressing yourself through the way you look is not for everyone, but it is for me, and it would be something plenty of men would love to do too, if the societal cost wasn't too high.

having said that, I do know a fetish when I see one.

Who knows if it's a fetish? Who cares? A man being just a man, not some special new category - bald and all! - publicly and proudly wearing skirts and heels is a radical statement in 2020. And you would hope that those who call themselves "gender critical" would celebrate this, instead of picking him apart!

And the common (much more than most would suspect, I imagine) "fetish" among men for wearing "women's" clothes probably wouldn't exist if "women's clothes" weren't a separate category in the first place - one to which all sexy garments are consigned. Many men would like to be desired, to be seen an "sexy", even to be sex objects. I have seen that forbidden wish expressed so often.

If men could and did just wear those clothes all the time, they would lose their illicit thrill and thus would, in time, cease to be "sexy". Or, at least, they would be no more sexy than the same clothes are to many women. So, ironically, those branding this man a "fetishist" are fuelling the existence of the very fetish they decry.

Women who go out with about 90% of their skin on display may be deemed "sluts", but at least they are not deemed creeps/"fetishists". I suppose that's another gender divide.

Didolamenting
I was referring to children not adults ?

But anyway, stilettos, who actually really likes to walk in them, other than to the other side of the bedroom. I am so glad to see more girls wearing trainers now even on a night out

not saying it's the case for Mark McSilkson, but in my experience men who fetishise women's clothing often do so because they have a submissiveness fetish and associate femininity with submissiveness.

it's pretty insulting really

I'm unconvinced that being able to tell that someone is getting their jollies from wearing certain clothing in public is fuelling their fetish.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I was trying to find some clothing as a birthday present for DH today. In a busy cathedral city, the only mens clothes shops I could find were M&S, Debenhams and Fat Face. And fuck me those clothes are boring.

same story when shopping for my DS's. I don't want to dress them exclusively in brown or blue.

I do feel for men on this subject. The clothes that are generally available to them are incredibly, stultifyingly, mind bendingly boring. It sounds wanky, but putting together outfits, choosing make up and jewellery is quite a creative process for me. it kept my shit together during lockdown

expressing yourself through the way you look is not for everyone, but it is for me, and it would be something plenty of men would love to do too, if the societal cost wasn't too high.

having said that, I do know a fetish when I see one.

Yeah a lot of mens shops (on a standard highstreet budget) are crap, a large part of that is because society as a whole essentially accepts that its okay for men to make zero effort with their appearance, so much so a special phrase was invented (metro sexual) for a man who doesn’t dress like Simon from the inbetweeners.

If men buy shit clothes, chains will continue to design more shit clothes. The nearest to a standard highstreet budget with a fairly decent amount of nice clothes are places like urban outfitters and allsaints. You do find the odd nice thing at h&m, but their sizes are a bit weird.

I’m a bit too appearance focused with the way I dress, I like putting outfits together including which watch etc. But as I’m gay thats seen as okay, its often seen as weird, poncy or selfabsorbed when straight men take pride in their appearance. Be it clothes, hair, their body etc.

@Flapjak

Didolamenting I was referring to children not adults ?

I was born in 1959 and grew up on a farm. I don't think I owned a pair of trousers until the mid 70s. Oddly wearing skirts, dresses and pinafores didn't prevent my running around or climbing (even that holy of holies on FWR- climbing trees !) riding (and frequently falling off my pony) playing with sledges and on ice sides or as a teenager cycling several miles over a rough country road in a school uniform skirt.

Yeah a lot of mens shops (on a standard highstreet budget) are crap

They really are. There's no equivalent of good quality mid- market high street ranges like Cos, Whistles, Jigsaw, Brora or Hobbs. It's a regular moan from my husband. According to him there's nothing except really boring, cheap and badly made clothes in places like M&S or next or , at his age, he has to go very upmarket into the tweedy country gent or semi- bespoke market.

He's straight but he would agree with you that there is nothing wrong in being interested in clothes and caring about your appearance.

I find all the comments about how “good” his legs/bum are a bit uncomfortable. Is it because this style of clothing invites critique of others “sexiness”?
I confess I don’t find it attractive at all so perhaps I’m missing something.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I agree, and in my experience, that that is often part of it. But I think there's a lot more to it than that. And, unfortunately, submissiveness is associated with femininity, and thus with women, pretty much universally; that isn't the preserve of men with a fetish.

As a very assertive person, I find the notion of "submissiveness" in any context disturbing. But isn't "submissive" (in a sexual sense) another way of saying that one would like to be ravished, taken, done unto, the object of another's unstoppable desire? I can't relate to those feelings at all, but clearly many (most?) women have them. And it would appear that many men do too. But that is another experience that is forbidden them...

There is no reason at all why men shouldn't wear skirts.

I think his shoes are ridiculous - whoever is wearing them.

Only one skirt below the knee - he likes a certain look.

" I don't think I owned a pair of trousers until the mid 70s. Oddly wearing skirts, dresses and pinafores didn't prevent my running around or climbing (even that holy of holies on FWR- climbing trees !) riding (and frequently falling off my pony) playing with sledges and on ice sides or as a teenager cycling several miles over a rough country road in a school uniform skirt"

And lots of women can run in a skirt and high heels. Think you are deliberately missing the point somewhat.

I had to do PE in a skirt, cant say that was a positive experience as a teenage girl on her period.

Why so female gymnasts need to wear leotards whilst the males get to wear tunics?

Where I live, I see men in skirts regularly - every Sunday at a nearby church (Pacific Islander community) and in a nearby 'alternative' suburb. There is absolutely a male style of skirt wearing that isn't cross dressing in both places. Both places the men tend to wear kilt style skirts. They really look no more remarkable than men in trousers. Just blokes, but in a garment that covers (fashionably or not) the pelvis and thighs without 'legs'. Unisex or gender neutral is a good descriptor for their dress.

I haven't yet looked at the photos of Mr Pencil Skirt, but pencil skirts and stilettos are not unisex or gender neutral, but highly coded feminine. And in a way that many women find uncomfortable, if not downright oppressive. I honestly don't care if men dress up b/c they find a highly feminine coded aesthetic attractive, but I think it's a bit tone deaf to describe it as empowering.

I think a better descriptor is 'transgressive'. It can feel good to be transgressive, especially against norms you dislike or disagree with. And that's fine. But it's quite different from empowerment.

It’s all very well, saying everyone should be able to wear whatever they like, but In the real and corporate worlds, there is a lot to be said about cultural norms and conformity. That’s the social reality we all live in.

Ok, having looked at the pics, I think this guy's skirts look great, and other than the pencil style, very much in line with what I see around me. He looked good in the pencil skirt though.

It's the shoes that I think are more of an...issue? In terms of promoting him as some gender crushing hero.

Those shoes scream a thing to me that isn't 'gender-free'.

The skirted blokes I see don't go for that particular shoe aesthetic. They vary between flats and boots with or without moderate heel, as do most women I see.

This guy's shoes reinforce some uncomfortable associations around what femininity is...

And lots of women can run in a skirt and high heels. Think you are deliberately missing the point somewhat

I don't know what point you are making. I was referring back to a poster who seems to think it's impossible to be an active child wearing a skirt.

@BolloxtoGender

It’s all very well, saying everyone should be able to wear whatever they like, but In the real and corporate worlds, there is a lot to be said about cultural norms and conformity. That’s the social reality we all live in.

I don't know about the corporate world, but I live in the real world and have zero problem with men wearing skirts.

Naw would never date a guy in high heels tottering about

Never wear high heels. They are horrid

You totter about like a helpless pony

He’s just having a laugh

I Like a guy in a kilt or sarong but not him

Well creepy he looks in his pictures way he looks at the camera

Well used to seeing guys wearing sarongs kilts robes.

But these pics

Highly sexualised

No no no

The pictures made me think about shoes.High heels seem so old fashioned now IMO. I can’t remember seeing any of my friends in them for so long... l am in central London, like to go out but l am racking my brains to even think of anyone in my circle wearing heels in the last few years. 25-55.
Maybe heels are over.

I don't think tight skirts and high heels are practical for either sex.

@littlbrowndog

Well used to seeing guys wearing sarongs kilts robes.

But these pics

Highly sexualised

No no no

The idea that it's empowering to voluntarily hobble oneself is very suspect.

I don’t have problem either BlackWave, but your opinion nor mine together make up the norm.

I can count on one hand the non-celebrity men I've seen wearing a skirt in my 30 years; it just doesn't happen

Same here in my 60 years

I know at least five men who do at times, none a celebrity. (And only one to work.)

with the obvious exception of men wearing kilts and even then kilts are not every day wear. They are alternative formal wear for a very small number of men and certain regiments.

And ordinary attire for most of the professional males in Inverness when I was there; it was the equivalent of wearing a business suit, as far as I could make out. I can't remember what they wore on their top halves, but it wasn't collarless white shirts with baggy sleeves, I would have noticed that; and I don't think there were obvious sgian-dubhs involved.