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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Man making skirts non-gender

362 replies

SusannaSpider · 16/10/2020 12:43

Sorry, stupid title.

But what do you think of this link? Man likes to wear skirts and heels to work, still definitely a man, not a transwoman, not a sexual fetish, he just thinks skirts should be non gender, likes the style etc.

I just find this really refreshing, how things should be really, Men should be able to chose more traditionally feminine clothes, whilst still being a men.
www.boredpanda.com/confident-man-wears-heels-skirt-markbryan911/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=BPFacebook

OP posts:
testing987654321 · 18/10/2020 11:33

Some of you just can't stop yourselves seizing any opportunity to criticise anything feminine.

What a strange statement. What is feminine about shoes which require excellent balancing skills just to walk in, are neither comfortable nor practical and damaging to the feet of the person wearing them? This is a feminist board, we tend to question things which are sold to us as feminine but are just stupid.

I have had a few straight skirts in my time. They are okay, but you do have to remember to restrict your movements when wearing them. That's why I typically wear trousers as they are much more practical.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 18/10/2020 11:35

i invariably end up ripping pencil skirts by taking strides that are too long Sad

i have thrown away too many to buy them any more

FairFriday · 18/10/2020 11:36

I once spectacularly ripped one when I lept off the back of an old London bus.

testing987654321 · 18/10/2020 12:04

Same here, getting out of the car at the start of a working day. Spent the rest of the day being very careful where I was sitting /standing due to the split. Shame, because it was a nice smart black dress, just impractical.

FairFriday · 18/10/2020 12:08

But then I’ve also ripped the lining of skirts - and trousers - at work because I usually spread files on the floor and bend oven from the chair to work with them. Lining is usually thin, badly sewn and much tighter than the garment I have discovered. Also makes a loud noise when tearing.

Whatwouldscullydo · 18/10/2020 12:11

This is a feminist board, we tend to question things which are sold to us as feminine but are just stupid

Well yes these are all things we discussed. Its actually most bizarre that questioning whether something is damaging to a womans body like we would with breast binding , foot binding, corsets etc is somehow an attack on men Confused

SleepingStandingUp · 18/10/2020 12:12

@bluebluezoo

I was an 80's teen, it seemed to be far more common then

Me too. I still have a hankering for real men with eyeliner, pirate blouses and long hair blowing in the wind...

Back when men were men Grin

I'm so sad I missed this era
Floisme · 18/10/2020 12:16

I like menswear. I think it looks looks more stylish (personal opinion obviously) plus it's often better quality for the price, less trend led and because it can still look good when you're no longer as young or as thin.

However there have been two stages in my life when I found skirts much more practical: adolescence and the menopause, when I had unpredictable, very heavy periods and trousers exposed them mercilessly.

So I find this narrative that all skirts and dresses are impractical quite tedious.

McSilkson · 18/10/2020 12:21

@Whatwouldscullydo

Course it matters . Unless you think that it's ok to involve others in your sexual fetish and normalise and applaud a form of sexual harassment?

Wearing what you like because you like it and its not sexually motivated- knock yourselves out.

Involving unconsenting adults and children into your fetish - just no.

Unless you think it's impossible fir men to do one without doing both so we have to accept and normalise it all?

Women in the West wear overtly sexualised clothing all the time. I imagine that even the most opaque skinny jeans and leggings make many people from other cultures (Middle Eastern, for example) uncomfortable, and they probably make judgements and assumptions about the wearers.

I see women's bare arses hanging out of their "shorts" just about every week, especially in the summer. I certainly don't consent to seeing that. Not to mention all the women's underwear that I don't want to see, visible through see-through leggings, which leave nothing to the imagination. In fact, I see 18-year-olds literally in their underwear out on the town every week - or at least I used to, before Covid. Though I note that this seems to be a thing among the student men as well now. I saw a drunk woman's breasts hanging out of her dress the other day; she didn't seem remotely concerned.

Is anyone going to say that this isn't sexually motivated and attention-seeking behaviour? That the participants aren't getting a kick out of it?

All this makes me somewhat "uncomfortable", but whatever. None of these women conducted a public consultation before leaving the house dressed that way, but I'm not about to accuse them of "sexual harassment". This just gets more and more ridiculous. And it all rests on your assumption of a "fetish".

Whatwouldscullydo · 18/10/2020 12:26

I see women's bare arses hanging out of their "shorts" just about every week, especially in the summer. I certainly don't consent to seeing that. Not to mention all the women's underwear that I don't want to see, visible through see-through leggings, which leave nothing to the imagination. In fact, I see 18-year-olds literally in their underwear out on the town every week - or at least I used to, before Covid. Though I note that this seems to be a thing among the student men as well now. I saw a drunk woman's breasts hanging out of her dress the other day; she didn't seem remotely concerned

and all these things have been discussed on here loads of times. And discussions as to the roles the media, society etc plays , and fir instance in the cases of missing or murdered women why the papers run pics of them in bikinis etc its an incredibly lengthy discussion and does not change the fact that there are men out there who get off on wearing wonens clothing ( again not saying this man does i have no evidence either way) and this "women do it too" is used repeatedly to shut down discussion on male behaviour

ulanbatorismynextstop · 18/10/2020 12:27

Very refreshing!

Butterer · 18/10/2020 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

testing987654321 · 18/10/2020 12:33

So I find this narrative that all skirts and dresses are impractical quite tedious

Well yes, that would be a tedious narrative, if anyone was saying it.

Italiangreyhound · 18/10/2020 12:36

Floisme "So I find this narrative that all skirts and dresses are impractical quite tedious."

Has anyone here said all skirts and dresses are impractical? I think we are discussing the photos of this man in his outfits. Lots of people have said skirts on men are fine. I didn't think it also needed to be said, but for the record, skirts on women are fine too.

Butterer · 18/10/2020 12:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Floisme · 18/10/2020 12:53

@testing987654321

So I find this narrative that all skirts and dresses are impractical quite tedious

Well yes, that would be a tedious narrative, if anyone was saying it.

Fair enough and I admit I was thinking in part of previous threads about skirts and dresses which got pretty batshit. I guess I just think it would be good to see it acknowledged that there are situations when, if you're female, a skirt can be the more practical option.
McSilkson · 18/10/2020 12:54

TabbyTurmoil:

One of the functions of gender in our current society is to signal who we want to attract, who we want to desire us (I agree with Andrea Long Chu on this, if not many other things). This man is straight so leads us to conclude that he is signalling either an attraction to himself in his skirts or , possibly, the enjoyment of sexual submission, both of which onlookers might prefer not to be privy to.

Interesting comment.

Or, here's an idea, he might hope to attract a woman that accepts and likes him the way he is - a woman who appreciates flamboyant, sartorially transgressive men. An oddball woman like me, for example. Wink Believe it or not, some women are into this sort of thing. Though I appreciate we have the ontological status of Yetis... Honestly, the main thing that would put me off this guy is the baldness (and his age); I like longish hair on both sexes.

But isn't it good that this man is being upfront about what he likes to wear? If you're a man who likes to dress this way, the odds of finding a woman are stacked against you. So better get it out there from the outset. What you see is what you get.

A woman in a long-term relationship who is devastated by the discovery of her male partner's secret liking for tights and heels is a common story. No one is gonna go through that with this guy!

The extent to which people dress to attract others varies hugely. I can honestly say that I wear whatever I like, from dungarees to lace, floral, pastel maxi dresses. I also have hairy armpits, which I understand is unattractive to most people. But those people are not the right ones for me. I like my hairy armpits and, yes, I do find them quite sexy. If any man or woman should also like them, that would just be a bonus; it's certainly not my motivation. Maybe this guy feels the same...

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/10/2020 12:59

Has anyone else noticed that men's jeans have front pockets six or more inches (fifteen or sixteen centimetres) deep, whereas women's jeans often have pockets about half as deep or even less, so your car keys fall out of them and you leave a trail of loose change everywhere you sit down? And that the zips on women's jeans are often about half the length of those on men's jeans, so that it's quite difficult to get them off to have a pee?

Speaking of impractical clothing as some of us were....

McSilkson · 18/10/2020 13:16

@Whatwouldscullydo

I see women's bare arses hanging out of their "shorts" just about every week, especially in the summer. I certainly don't consent to seeing that. Not to mention all the women's underwear that I don't want to see, visible through see-through leggings, which leave nothing to the imagination. In fact, I see 18-year-olds literally in their underwear out on the town every week - or at least I used to, before Covid. Though I note that this seems to be a thing among the student men as well now. I saw a drunk woman's breasts hanging out of her dress the other day; she didn't seem remotely concerned

and all these things have been discussed on here loads of times. And discussions as to the roles the media, society etc plays , and fir instance in the cases of missing or murdered women why the papers run pics of them in bikinis etc its an incredibly lengthy discussion and does not change the fact that there are men out there who get off on wearing wonens clothing ( again not saying this man does i have no evidence either way) and this "women do it too" is used repeatedly to shut down discussion on male behaviour

Yes - I've been following this board for a long time.

But I'm not saying "women do it too". I'm saying - why can't men do it too? Why is there a double standard?

Plenty of women are turned on by women's clothing. Plenty of women "get off" on fulfilling the sex object role, on being "fuckable". Plenty of women argue that they feel sexy in heels and find them "empowering".

None of this is for me. And you could argue that this is a race to the bottom....

It just so happens that, not coincidentally, sexualised clothing is coded exclusively feminine/female. That is the only cultural model available to us. But it doesn't have to be. Decoupling these clothes from sex and making them equal-opportunity would degender them. Now, the merits of the clothes themselves... that is another debate.

SusannaSpider · 18/10/2020 13:18

Has anyone else noticed that men's jeans have front pockets six or more inches (fifteen or sixteen centimetres) deep, whereas women's jeans often have pockets about half as deep or even less, so your car keys fall out of them and you leave a trail of loose change everywhere you sit down?

Hell yes. I'm obsessed with pockets. I'm always ranting about this to DH, my phone won't even fit in my front pocket, whereas he pulls his phone, wallet, car keys, assorted tat out of his pockets. I have a pair of gym leggings with proper deep pockets on the thighs, they are bloody awesome and DD has a school skirt this year that actually has a proper zip pocket.

OP posts:
AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/10/2020 13:33

DD has a school skirt this year that actually has a proper zip pocket.

Oh my, your lucky DD. Every school uniform I ever had, at three different schools, had no pockets at all; one even had a blazer with fake pockets that were sewn on the outside and had no opening at the top.

My brothers' uniforms had trousers with pockets and blazers with pockets.

I suppose I was meant to keep my hanky tucked into the top of my knickers or something.

It's what is the really major difference between men's and women's gendered clothing: men's clothing doesn't require a handbag to be carried as well (to be lost or stolen).

DidoLamenting · 18/10/2020 13:38

@testing987654321

So I find this narrative that all skirts and dresses are impractical quite tedious

Well yes, that would be a tedious narrative, if anyone was saying it.

Guess you didn't read the thread properly then? Or any other thread when clothes are discussed. It gets thrown in every single time.
DidoLamenting · 18/10/2020 13:41

@Whatwouldscullydo

This is a feminist board, we tend to question things which are sold to us as feminine but are just stupid

Well yes these are all things we discussed. Its actually most bizarre that questioning whether something is damaging to a womans body like we would with breast binding , foot binding, corsets etc is somehow an attack on men Confused

What on earth are you on about? Footbinding? Corsets? Where have they even been mentioned?
ekidmxcl · 18/10/2020 13:44

I sewed zipped pockets into my dd’s uniform. Bloody ridiculously impractical without.

TabbyTurmoil · 18/10/2020 13:44

A woman in a long-term relationship who is devastated by the discovery of her male partner's secret liking for tights and heels is a common story. No one is gonna go through that with this guy!

Except his wife of 11 years, when he started wearing skirts 5 years ago.

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