Julie Bindel - article on allies

[Goosefoot]

Thought people might be interested in discussing this:

[https://unherd.com/2020/10/feminisms-dangerous-new-allies/]]

We've talked about this a lot here - I'm not sure Bindel has really said anything as worthwhile or interesting as lot of the regular posters here have, it seems a little one dimensional to me.

Maybe because she's really stuck on the left-good right-bad thinking and doesn't really consider whether there has been a change within those categories at all, or why the left has struggled with certain problems. It seems to me she sees it as almost random, and if we just take out the TRA stuff things can go back to normal.

[quote CaraDuneRedux]**@BlackWaveComing* and @xxyzz* - I agree.

We're always saying the opposite side should do "due dilligence" - NSPCC should have checked out rubberman before employing him, the Greens should have checked Challenor's background, and the LibDems had no excuse whatsoever for not checking Challenor's background.

Well we should do the same. By all means be interviewed by the mainstream right of centre press - Times, Telegraph, Spectator.

But due dilligence means you shouldn't tether yourself to people who are espousing views which are outright evil, simply to get a platform (any more than political parties and NGOs should align themselves with people with very dubious background re. safeguarding, simply to get woke points).

Poulton is definitely the wrong side of a line I don't want to cross.[/quote]
I don't know that I would necessarily consider those things comparable though. There is a difference between hiring a potentially dangerous person for a job which they are unsuited for, and being interviewed on a stage with someone who thinks things you think are wrong and socially negative.

It's like that doctor who espoused a different approach to covid who is now being blasted for being interviews by a guy who supposedly has retrograde guests and questionable views himself. The doctor said that as a public health official he felt obligated to appear on any show he was asked on. That's nothing to do with aligning himself with anything.

I agree with her

InfiniteSheldon - ”Feminism does not belong to the Left. Try starting from that point and 'allies' won't matter. Feminism is for all women not some cosy cabal of correct thinking Left women to allow or disallow anyone else”

I agree - and I’m speaking as a life-long leftie.

All jj is doing here is causing as much division as possible - “Divide and Rule”.

Brand New Tube is a platform, like YouTube or Twitter. There are pornographers, anti-semites, paedophiles and every kind of bonkers conspiracy theorist on all social media platforms.

The NSPCC rubber-wanker referred to above posted his gross videos on YouTube and Twitter. That doesn’t mean that everyone who posts on those platforms endorses all the unsavoury content and characters they host.

David Icke is on Brand New Tube too. That doesn’t mean that everyone else on there thinks the Queen is a giant, shape-shifting lizard.

FFS - eye on the ball!

We all (and that includes jj) know that Transgender Trend are not a bunch of Nazis. Sonia Poulton has done some great, factual exposés (eg. on the Challenors) as well as some wildly speculative work. Give credit where credit is due rather than damn her outright.

Interesting that jj1968 comes here, riding on the coat-tails of Julie’s article, to sling dirt at Posie and Transgender Trend.

I don’t know who jj1968 is but their top priority does not seem to be protecting children, instead they seem focused on undermining support for those who have that as their mission in life.

Not worth engaging with IMHO.

Posie has invited Julie Bindel to go on her YT channel to talk about their differences. I hope she does and that then, maybe, everyone can move on.

I don’t agree with everything Posie or Julie Bindel say and do but it’s a fact that they are both important movers and shakers who make a real, positive difference. They both care deeply about preventing harm to children, as does Stephanie Davies-Arai (Transgender Trend).

I hope Julie Bindel takes up Posie’s invitation. They are not likely to agree on strategy but if they could at least agree to differ it might help heal a rift that others like jj1968 seem keen to exploit and widen.

@MoleSmokes

The comparison to youtube is utterly specious. BNT was set up by conspiracy theorists to promote conspiracy theories, it is not a neutral platform. And youtube would remove much of the content on there, not least because some of it likely breaks laws on inciting racial hatred.

Sonia Poulton is an integral part of the site, to the extent of appearing with the website's founder to help rehabilitate a fellow presenter accused of dubious sexual behaviour with a victim of trafficking as detailed in the other thread on here. Her news show, which is being used as a vehicle to promote the site, begins with an antisemitic graphic advertising another BNT 'Rhodium' uploader who is an openly antisemitic holocaust denier, alngside other dubious charceters like David Icke.

And talking pf David Icke, him and Poulton go back a long way and were even in business together at one point. I have no idea what Poulton's views are, she has been somewhat reticent to say, but her work has had a conspiratorial nature for some time now, and she clearly has no problem working with antisemites like Icke.

I'm not really surprised to see Harry and Posie on that website, they clearly have little scruples about who they work with. But that an organisation like Transgender Trend, who seek to work with schools, did not take one look at Brand New Tube and run a mile is deeply troubling. And that they haven't removed links and endorsements after they have been made aware of the nature of the site even more so. I completely understand why left wing Feminists like Julie Bindel are putting as much distance as possible between themselves and this side of the gender critical movement.

And I'm sorry if you think I'm attempting to be divisive. Perhaps if people were going onto far right sites and whipping up hatred against people like you then you would have a bit more insight into how this feels from a trans perspective. There are people on that website who would round trans people up and put us into camps if they achieved their political objectives. And it wouldn't stop with trans people. It probably wouldn't even start with trans people.

Watched Posie's video linked here and one thing that struck me is that I've never seen her bad-mouth other women's activism in public. She's explicit about her support for women doing activism their way.

Oh yeah let's pretend Transgender Trend are Nazis now.

So much shit. So much. Keep going, it merely means that actual alt right lunatics get an in because wankers on the left are so busy tarring everyone as racist and Nazi that you can't spot the actual ones in among the frivolously tarred.

Thank you for the warning about Brand New Tube. After I saw senior Labour Party politicians endorsing the view that WPUK was a hate group, I decided I would no longer take these kinds of allegations at face value. I will therefore check out BNT and decide for myself. I suggest everyone does the same.

And I'm sorry if you think I'm attempting to be divisive. Perhaps if people were going onto far right sites and whipping up hatred against people like you then you would have a bit more insight into how this feels from a trans perspective. There are people on that website who would round trans people up and put us into camps if they achieved their political objectives. And it wouldn't stop with trans people. It probably wouldn't even start with trans people.

I clicked on 'top videos' to see what people were actually watching on there.

brandnewtube.com/videos/top?page_id=1

Right at the top, with over 50,000 views is loads of conspiracy theory nonsense. You have to get to the ones with only about 20,000 views to see anything else, where you get a trailer for the new James Bond movie, a Punjabi song and a documentary by Sonia Poulton about paedophiles in parliament (which is also on youtube).

The offensive videos you screenshotted have a few hundred views, so are not the main point of the site. I'm sure there is similar on youtube with a few hundred views (unless they actually take them down - I have no idea if they would).

So my impression is that it's mainly about conspiracy theories plus anything else that people want to post on there. No evidence of it being a 'far right site'.

And none of us are 'whipping up hatred' against trans people. If you see any posts on here where people are doing that, please report them because they shouldn't be allowed to stand.

So my impression is that it's mainly about conspiracy theories plus anything else that people want to post on there. No evidence of it being a 'far right site'.

Amongst those top videos are David Icke who has supported holocaust deniers and claims WW2 was orchestrated by a Jewish clique. There is also Ronald Bernard who has promoted the faked Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a document widely distributed by the Nazi Party as evidence of a global Jewish conspiracy and documentaries claiming Bill Gates is planning mass genocide with poisonous vaccines. Not all antisemitism comes openly expressed and adorned with swastikas.

This is the image which featured at the beginning of Sonia Poulton's video which TT appeared on. This is Albert Bishai's page on the site: brandnewtube.com/@ALBERT He is an open antisemite. You are correct that thankfully his videos dont have many views as yet. Presumably the intention of advertising him at the beginning of Sonia's video was an attempt to change that.

I think David Icke may be banned from T now, but I disctinctly remember a few years back, a video on his about proof of 'false flag' crisis actors at the Boston Marathon (please do not look into that if anyone is interested, the theory is quite vile) was on the top videos part, with hundreds of thousands of views also. Was ages ago, yes, but it wasn't uncommon and I suspect, loking at YT videos with less views now would unveil some..unsavoury (to say the least) stuff also.

On a smaller site, this will seem more common. If this site had as many users as YT, then this kind of stuff would (usually, except for the above type situations where a theory seems to take off a lot) generally drop to the bottom and be ignored.

I find it quite depressing in all honesty, that womens rights videos, and stuff about safeguarding kids is being removed/banned from YT, and kind of forcing use of alternative sites in order to get videos uploaded. Its a shitty situation, in which concern about women and kids, is written off in the same vein as total conspiracy or outright racism and such, to me anyway. That needs to change, quickly.

I didn't know a lot of this about Poulton tbh. But it doesn't change the fact that I do agree with her on this one topic and she has done some good work in this area. Her (seemingly very awful at times, to me) views in other areas do not concern me really, I will never agree with her, nor fight with her for stuff thats against my own moral compass. Again, purity politics really is not my thing at all.

In short, I find it interesting that people are now kicking off about womens/childrens rights campaigners using this brandnewtube, after they massreport anything the same groups post on YT with the hope of getting them removed (and sucessful a lot sadly also). So, if you will not let them be posted mainstream, and kick off about them being posted elsewhere, whats to be done here to satisfy? When you suceed in getting such views banned on YT, people involved just give in and walk away? Unlikely, and a bit hopeful I think for those who wish for certain viewpoints on womens rights and safeguarding to be banned completely.

There are hundreds of gender critical videos on youtube including Posie Parker's channel which has thousands of subscribers. If videos contain copyright material, outright hatred or libel people they are likely to be removed. This applies to everyone not just gender critical activists. To claim that the universally applied rules are forcing GC people to turn to conspiracy and hard or far right websites by being asked to keep to the same standards as everyone else is frankly nonsense.

I liked her in the beginning when she was writing in the press about benefit claimants and disability etc

Indeed her slide into conspracy theories was depressing to watch, not least because she was managing to get anti-austerity views published in her column in the Daily Mail of all places.

I don't think avoiding someone you disagree strongly with on many topics is quite part of the left 'eating its own' tbh. I know some would class it as that, but I actively do avoid some peoples 'work' because some other stuff has been really shitty IMO. What I wouldn't do though, is expect everyone else to avoid them also, unless they had their own reasons. And their reasons might not cover the same as mine, or they might even be able to put stuff off the side and ignore everything but the current topic. Many can do that, I can sometimes, I cannot other times as the person involved just disgusts me THAT much in general. I also cannot find it in me to berate others for using platforms I might disagree with, when they have been banned from more mainstream ones as others disagree with them (and think their very opinion in general should be unheard). While I also do think some stuff shouldn't be in the public eye as much as possible (terrorist support, racism, inciting violence, the usual generally agreed on horrid views) I 100% disagree with relegating genuine concerns about womens rights/children to this group. Mind I do sometimes think that while it seems obvious the views I despise should be 'banned', others obviously think that about MY views on protecting womens rights and safeguarding kids. But the I think, nah, thats not the same, AT ALL and making it out to be is quite shitty. While this purity stuff is not for me, I do actively avoid some people who others might find benign..I think thats entirely usual tbh. Maybe this makes me a huge hypocrite too. Am open to that possibility, but still am unlikely to change it, bit of a stubborn bitch these days I have to say

Taken a while to get to this position though. From a good little leftie who would sometimes go along berating others for even slightly differing views even if I agreed with the slightly differing views myself in private just to get backpats and assure me that I am a 'good person' unlike all these others, mainly 'the right wing'(boogeyman)

While I always disagreed with 'purity politics', I did often pretend it was my thing, to fit in with other 'right thinkers'. Honestly, sometimes looking back it almost seems like a cult. I started breaking away from this properly around the time Corbyn came into public view properly. Long long road and a lot of reflection!

Russell Brand and Dave Chapelle both appear to have verified channels on that site. I hope you are just as busy writing to them and their management as you are being very concerned about Harry Miller, Kelly Jay and Stephanie Davies Arai. None of whom appear to have channels there but just appeared in an interview with someone else who uploaded them there.

It is a bizarre site and not one I'd bother with personally. Sonia Poulton is an odd character and someone I find myself in disagreement with roughly half the time.

A lot of her stuff veers (IMO) into tin foil hat territory yet there are some cases where I find myself in agreement - such as the death of Stuart Lubbock. Very obviously a cover up with the perps never being brought to justice. I recall this was one of her pet conspiracies.

It should be noted that her channel on BNT is a duplicate version of her Youtube channel who appear not to have banned her.

It's not that your points don't have merit jj1968 it's just most of us can see the disingenuous concern trolling for what it is.

If the far right start rounding people up in camps it won't be because TT linked a video without checking the source or even because Dave Chapelle uploaded comedy clips there.

@jj1968

There are hundreds of gender critical videos on youtube including Posie Parker's channel which has thousands of subscribers. If videos contain copyright material, outright hatred or libel people they are likely to be removed. This applies to everyone not just gender critical activists. To claim that the universally applied rules are forcing GC people to turn to conspiracy and hard or far right websites by being asked to keep to the same standards as everyone else is frankly nonsense.

To claim stuff that is not copyright, outright hatred or libel is not removed on YT when it comes from a GC perspective is frankly nonsense. I have see this happen. Multiple times.

If certain aspects are not mentioned, then its more likely to survive. But certain important parts of the whole convo, seems to be instant deletion. Especially when regarding child transition. Meanwhile videos encouraging children to actively leave their families and find a 'glitter family' if the family have any doubts, is fine apparently

Nothing to see here. Nope. Just paranoia.

@Butterer

Honestly, sometimes looking back it almost seems like a cult

I have been resisting using that phrase a lot recently wrt specific far left communities ive historically been involved in, because I felt like sounded paranoid....

From a good little leftie who would sometimes go along berating others for even slightly differing views even if I agreed with the slightly differing views myself in private just to get backpats and assure me that I am a 'good person' unlike all these others, mainly 'the right wing'(boogeyman)
Yep. Same.

I have many times attempted to explain this but deleted it as I thought it just sounded paranoid. Biting the bullet in this thread as it seems relevant. Can always NC if it goes sideways Though, tbh my posting style seems instantly recognisable anyway, as is my backstory, as have found out off a few PMs asking 'if I was X' after last NC..oh dear, predictable in the extreme it seems.

It's so interesting that conspiracy theories in general are now being pushed as moral wrongthink. If that link is made successfully in the minds of the public it will be a very powerful tool to silence disparate views. It's akin IMO to the recent overt attempt to link TRA positions with CRT and anti-racism.

@OvaHere

The channels by Russell Brand and Dave Chapelle appear to be scraped cotent from their youtube channels and as such are not likely to be officially endorsed. I assume they are there to pull in the punters and will last as long as it takes their respective lawyers to get round to shutting them down.

Sonia Poulton's channel is not just scraped from her youtube. It carries BrandNewTube branding. She is billed as one of the main presenters of Brand New Tube by the founder of the site who she appeared alongside to defend fellow presenter Sean Attwood from allegations of dubious sexual conduct:

I don't have a issue with conspiracy theories as such. Infact, a few of them have a lot of merit in my mind. But stuff like, for a current example, covid denial..I think is dangerous to have 'out there' circulating in the public.

Dangerous might be the wrong word, I know exactly what I mean here but am having issues putting it into words..sme are 'dangerous' and others are outright offensive, take the Sandy Hook thing as one of the offensive nonsense stuff.

I think people will come a that from their own moral compass though really. As usual. ITs a hard topic though, for sure. I would NOT write off all CT as 'wrong think' but some of it seems obviously offensive and false. Mind, others could easily disagree with which ones I write off as offensive and false I guess. Interesting topic really.

I actually think often conspiracy theories result from people not being able to process traumatic events in the usual way, so looking for links with smething else makes them feel better somehow, people don;t want to believe horrible things can happen seemingly randomly, so look for a 'bigger plan' to feel better about it. I guess that could maybe come into both covid denial and sandy hook thinking about it. Its still a horrible thing though, for the parents f those kids to possibl come across videos claiming 'crisis actors' and 'no kids died' and stuff, its just..awful.

@Goosefoot

It's so interesting that conspiracy theories in general are now being pushed as moral wrongthink. If that link is made successfully in the minds of the public it will be a very powerful tool to silence disparate views. It's akin IMO to the recent overt attempt to link TRA positions with CRT and anti-racism.

It's interesting that some gender critical activists seem to support conspiracy theories.

And that link has already been successfully made in the minds of the general public ever since conspiracy theories were used to justify the mechanised slaughter of 6 million people.