Some questions for the socialist/left feminists here

[BlackWaveComing]

It's a free world, apparently, but this isn't a thread seeking input from conservative or right wing GC's. So

Otoh, if you are a feminist whose feminism encompasses but is not confined to GC in the context of transgender issues, and you have a socialist or left political alignment, I'd like your input. I suppose it's an AIBU for you. ( For context, I appreciate the role of social conservatism as a balancing force, and have defended FWR from accusations of transphobia on many occasions. Posting here for years, other names. You can PM me if you want my other names for veracity.)

I feel like FWR is losing a connection to feminism, and becoming a free speech board with an upsetting number of anti-feminist and anti- w/c tropes appearing here, largely unchallenged, daily.

Today I note the patriarchal notion that mothers are to blame for their children's mentally illness being trotted out. ROGD children, subject to an individualist corporation mediated social pressure being called attention seekers. This veers towards t-phobia, imo. And a complete lack of recognition that feminism is for poor women too, a cohort to whom the economic right is no friend.

Am I unreasonable in my assessment that yes, FWR is sliding into anti-genderism, anti-feminist conservatism?

And regardless of whether I'm wrong or right, is there a place for international w/c socialist feminists to discuss gender, among the many other issues facing women and children?

TIA.

You are criticising the existence of that thread, but you are one of the few people posting on it?

I didn't criticise the existence of the thread - just pointed it out as an example to someone saying they hadn't seen any.

But is that thread really an example of FWR being more homophobic? It is just a random poster putting a link to an article and literally saying no comment.

I understand what you mean Butterer.

To go back to the OP, it is not necessarily anti-feminist or right wing to question whether or not home environment plays a part in ROGD.

It is a board full of mothers and we spend a great deal of time thinking about the best way to mother.

I spend a lot of time reflecting on if I caused or contributed to DD’s anxiety and how best to support her. It doesn’t make me suddenly right wing.

@TheMarzipanDildo

I too thought I had moved to the right in recent years-apparently not

Something that struck me is that I took that test years ago (10 or 15 I think), and the questions were the same. Some of them seem to have rather different implications than they did then, though, and other topics don't appear at all.

It's quite interesting in the sense that it shows that in terms of the political scene however it was at that time, you and I suspect others here have become more leftist. Which is interesting in that many of us are now being considered to have moved right!

On the other hand, the way the questions on the test work, I wonder if some of them no longer are indicators in the way they were when the test was developed. So a question that at that time would have tended to correlate with a right or left orientation - and my understanding is that this is how the test works o some degree - may no longer do so. That would tend to fit in with the feeling many have that the left/right spectrum is undergoing a significant deconstruction of some kind.

@Stripesnomore

But is that thread really an example of FWR being more homophobic? It is just a random poster putting a link to an article and literally saying no comment.

I don't think there was anything random about that poster, tbh.

‘Phew! grin I tired my brain out a bit trying to explain it there and couldn't work out if I was making sense or not!‘

@Stripesnomore

But is that thread really an example of FWR being more homophobic? It is just a random poster putting a link to an article and literally saying no comment.

The actual thread and some of the views on it. Not the OP who seems to have plopped a link and ran. Just an example of a thread. Another one - the gay guy who was getting ripped to shreds for having a baby with his partner (sorry forgot his name) - some of the comments on there were disgusting. Those threads have gone now but doesn't stop them and the pages of agreeing comments on them having been made in the first place.

I can’t think of a phrase other than random which won’t lead to a deletion.

I don’t see any homophobic views on that thread, just people making points who were not very familiar with the case or the meaning of the phrases.

I don’t know about the gay father thread, but obviously a gay man can’t have a baby with a male partner, so I am assuming this was a trans man rather than homophobia?

And sorry, I don’t want to single you out here.

@Stripesnomore

I can’t think of a phrase other than random which won’t lead to a deletion.

Provocative? Quite a regular poster, not a troll, and there's nothing inflammatory as such. But why start a thread explicitly with no comment?

I don’t know about the gay father thread, but obviously a gay man can’t have a baby with a male partner, so I am assuming this was a trans man rather than homophobia?

No, not a trans man, it was a gay man who was starting a family via surrogacy with his husband.
There was a couple of threads about him.
People disagreeing with surrogacy (OK, fair enough) but it went beyond that.
There's a line, it's insidious imo

@Butterer

Im talking about groups which exclude gender critical men or women, whether explicitly (as in no **s) , or by implication - statements about trans allyship/no debate etc..

I've some experience of self-policing communities taking an overarching line that you're not welcome if you disagree - this automatically excludes any GC opinions being voiced, or if they are, it gets automatically dismissed as transphobia. IME, at least.

As far as some individuals and groups are concerned, using [the term I'm not using and trying clearly unsuccessfully to find an equivalent to] is - to them - descriptive, reasonable, acceptable, and not a slur =from their point of view= .

Yes I see what you mean. I just think that "exclusionary" is not a helpful word to use.

GC will do

Are you maybe talking about the Tom Daley thread there quaagars?

I don’t understand what you mean Asterion.

It seems clear to me what is meant by gender critical exclusionary.

What phrase do you want people to use for groups that exclude gender critical people?

@NRatched

Are you maybe talking about the Tom Daley thread there quaagars?

I'd assume the pink news chap, and please let's not go there again on this thread and get it deleted.

Ah, delightful. The conversation will now descend into a 'You're all meanies' drivel fest, instead of an interesting discussion about what it means to centre women.
As we've now reached the point in the conversation where the travails of a gay man who can't accept that women do not exist to serve him are being held out as stick to beat the women here with, I'm out of this one.

I align with those who centre women, be they on the left, right, centre or couldn't give a fuck about politics. I don't align with those who don't. Just to be very clear.

No, not Tom D, that was another one I'd forgotten about, that was a while ago now.
Benjamin something? Going to have to go google now.
Was only a couple of weeks ago.
Anyways, even if I linked or mentioned threads all day it wouldn't make a difference, was just saying there are some.
That's it.

@Stripesnomore

I don’t understand what you mean Asterion.

It seems clear to me what is meant by gender critical exclusionary.

What phrase do you want people to use for groups that exclude gender critical people?

No, she was looking for a different term for TERF.

Oh, OK, the fact that let's not go there, yes see there you go, there is a problem then, isn't there?
Not going there, but people shouldn't ask for examples if they don't want them.
Won't say owt more on it
-unless get dragged back in by people quoting and wanting answers or whatever--

There may well have been homophobic comments, but it is bizarre to give as an example of FWR becoming right wing a thread in which women are opposed to men literally buying a baby.

What could be more right wing than buying and selling human beings?

I suppose in the interests of fairness acknowledge the horror of slavery in North Korea.

I didn't mean you were wrong to give an example, quagaars, more that given the way the original threads went (deletion) it might be a mistake for anyone to get into discussing it again on this one, that's all.