Do you think most men would be happy taking a pee with someone who looks like Paris Lees stood next to them waiting to use the cubicle?
No idea, why would men care if Lees is just waiting to pee and not doing anything weird?
The stark fact is that within most of our lifetimes a trans women using men's toilets would have been likely to face arrest in the UK under obscenity laws.
What? I have never heard such stuff before. Any evidence of this happening?
She may well have also faced arrest using the women's but pragmatically she would be less likely to stand out and much less at risk of being sexually assaulted or beaten up.
Eh? So you are now saying the same person could be arrested for obscenity for being either in the gents or ladies?!
Well anyone getting beaten up in the ladies is extremely rare, so you are correct that they wouldn't fear being there.
The provision of toilets has, in practice, always been based on gender. There have never been laws governing use of toilets based on sex, just as there have never been genital or ID checkers at toilets doors.
No, toilet provision has been based on sex. A woman has no use for urinals but does need a bin in the cubicle. Women can basically not use men's facilities.
And, just for the very last time, no-one needs to check genitals because it's obvious whether someone is male of female based on many features.
And so the culture develop that trans people use toilets inline with their gender. This has been happening for decades in most countries and there is no evidence it has ever represented a risk to women despite a data set of hundreds of millions if not billions. New York alone has had specific laws allowing trans people to use toilets inline with their gender for a decade. It is a city of over 8 million people. I'm not aware of one reported incident
The number of trans people has exploded in the last few years, so going back decades tells us nothing.
And "no evidence of risk"? Check out this never happens.
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There is ample evidence that trans women face sexual violence from men at the same rate as non trans woman. It therefore seems reasonable to assume that a trans women using the men's toilets would be just as much at risk as any other woman.
Why is this women's problem to sort out?
She may also be at increased risk of transphobic violence or harassment. In addition, men's toilets are designed for men with a penis wearing male clothes, which doesn't apply to trans women who will probably need or want to use a cubicle.
Again, why is this women's problem? We have long queues often in the ladies and don't need extras in there.
So what is a trans women supposed to do? What would you do? The majority of women have reported not feeling uncomfortable with trans women using womens toilets (and the same of trans men sing the mens) and this is socially re-inforced by people's non trans friends. There is no evidence that this has caused harm. There is likely to be a risk of at worst sexual violence if she uses the men's along with all the other potential problems. Should she take that risk because a small percentage of women might feel uncomfortable?
Ignoring women's feelings despite supposedly being one.
Would you be happy taking that risk?
No, I'm a woman.
Should masculine appearing women also take that risk given they may equally make someone feel uncomfortable?
This again? Women are perfectly able to cope with masculine looking women. If a woman appears male at first glance she needs to do no more than smile or speak and it's obvious she's a woman.
Just how much should someone's comfort override someone's safety?
Exactly. Women's safety depends on them being able to take action when a man is in an inappropriate place, because the risks he poses. Having obvious men in the women's because of their feelings is not fair on women. If men don't feel safe in the men's they need to campaign for a reduction in male violence or individual toilets etc, not just use the women's.