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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jenni Murray's final Woman's Hour

111 replies

AbsintheFriends · 01/10/2020 10:45

Signing off with a final sentence - 'there are many, many stereotypes associated with our gender. But our SEX we share.'

Hopefully she will go on to speak more about this once she has exited woke central.

OP posts:
AbsintheFriends · 01/10/2020 19:17

I wonder if there was panic at the BBC, and their instant reaction was to try to reframe the message in the news bulletin immediately after the programme?

And then, frantic meetings in the next hour and the creeping realisation that it was out there, and the message had been heard by the tens of thousands of women who had tuned in for her last programme. Too late. No choice but to go with it.

And I wonder if that was exactly what JM planned?

OP posts:
PigeonToe · 01/10/2020 19:17

It's hours later and I'm still a bit emotional whenever I think of that sign-off.

Jane Garvey doesn't seem to think it's important. I don't really know why.

JKRforPM · 01/10/2020 19:20

Jenni Murray you absolute legend ❤️❤️

It’s fantastic that more and more women in the public eye are able to come forward about being ‘gender critical’ and questioning the whole TWAW/TRA/women just be kind line, and i think it’s important to acknowledge that JKR has had a massive impact on inspiring other women to come forward.

There are also many many women who have been telling everyone about this for a long time and often their voices were ignored or shouted down, and their work on this must not be forgotten either.

I’m unashamedly raising a glass tonight to all of the wonderful women who continue to ensure that feminism centres actual females.

ValancyRedfern · 01/10/2020 19:20

Diamonds and ryst is my favourite song in the world ever too. Looking forward to liste ING to this!

RozWatching · 01/10/2020 19:22

@SquishySquirmy

It might be because they didn't know in advance that she would say the final part of that sentence?
I think you might be right Squishy! She's a wily old witch Grin
BalhamWoman · 01/10/2020 19:38

Definitely the end of an era.

BabyItsAWildWorld · 01/10/2020 19:39

I ❤️ JM

lanadelgrey · 01/10/2020 19:44

It’s great hearing that final sentence repeated on news bulletins

kulaexchange · 01/10/2020 20:02

I wonder if she'll go over to the new Times radio?! She wouldn't be censored there ...

Lottapianos · 01/10/2020 20:33

What a perfect way to sign off. Bloody good for her. Really hoping to hear lots more from her on this issue

nauticant · 01/10/2020 20:38

I keep misreading the thread title as:

Jenni Murray's Finest Hour

napody · 01/10/2020 20:58

@AbsintheFriends

I wonder if there was panic at the BBC, and their instant reaction was to try to reframe the message in the news bulletin immediately after the programme?

And then, frantic meetings in the next hour and the creeping realisation that it was out there, and the message had been heard by the tens of thousands of women who had tuned in for her last programme. Too late. No choice but to go with it.

And I wonder if that was exactly what JM planned?

Oh you're good.... I bet you're right.

Wonderful outcome.

MaryLennoxsScowl · 01/10/2020 21:05

Could anyone paste in the text of the Telegraph article, please? I tried to sign up for the free articles but it wanted to take my bank details for a free article. Thanks!

StandUpStraight · 01/10/2020 21:22

mary I don’t think I can paste the whole thing under the site rules, but here are some extracts:

“And then finally, for her closing remarks, Murray chose to give a subtle nod to perhaps the most divisive issue in contemporary feminism: the interaction between sex and gender identity.

“If you do a programme like Woman’s Hour,” she said, “you have to consistently remind yourself that women are a vast range. There are many, many, many different stereotypes that fit our gender. So there is no one stereotypical woman. But our sex, we share.”
This was a careful and clever choice of words. It’s rumoured that one of the reasons Murray finally decided to leave the programme was that she had been muzzled from talking about the debate over the relationship between sex and gender identity.

Murray has not presented a programme tackling gender identity since 2017, when she wrote a long and meticulously argued article for The Times...In it, Murray firmly differentiated trans women from, in her words, “real women”.

For that, there was an outcry...and since then...it has been Jane Garvey, and not Jenni Murray, who has always been the presenter to navigate the choppy waters of gender identity. With that silence in mind, we can draw our own conclusions about the significance of Murray’s final remark. Was it the sound of a feminist putting her foot down?”

MaryLennoxsScowl · 01/10/2020 23:29

Thank you very much, @StandUpStraight!

MaryLennoxsScowl · 01/10/2020 23:31

I noticed the journalist who wrote the piece had deleted her twitter account and I wondered whether she’d written something outrageous, but it seems not. Not surprising really!

MaryLennoxsScowl · 01/10/2020 23:32

She signed the jkr letter too.

DryHeave · 02/10/2020 07:20

What’s the time stamp on the BBC sounds app? I can’t seem to find the part about stereotypes.

LizzieSiddal · 02/10/2020 07:39

It’s the last thing she says on the show.

NewlyGranny · 02/10/2020 07:40

40.53 or thereabouts, over Joan Baez. 😊✊

BlackeyedSusan · 02/10/2020 08:58

They played the sex we share bit on later news bulletins on R4. Evening and late.

Bookrat · 02/10/2020 11:12

I heard it on the news bulletin. When she first said gender my heart sank. Should have had more faith. What a fabulous, clever woman she is. So glad so many of us noticed and came here to recognise her achievements.

Gertiegumboot · 02/10/2020 11:24

Give Jane Garvey some time. I'm not convinced she is completely on top of all the arguments yet so maybe she doesn't feel fully qualified to comment. Also, I wouldn't blame any public figure for hesitating before sticking their head above the parapet ATM, especially if they have teen DC. Me and my friends who have teens are constantly having very lively debates about this issue in our own homes which is stressful enough, but bringing that out in to the public domain, with the level of invective that would attract, is something else all together. And remember she is leaving the programme soon too ... .

PineappleUpsideDownCake · 02/10/2020 13:05

Today womens hour festured something about a transgender dad who became a woman. I must admit I turned it over but did wonder.

StandUpStraight · 02/10/2020 14:34

I don’t think there’s any excuse for Jane Garvey not to be on top of the arguments, or for finding it too tricky on a personal level to engage with them. It’s her job, or should be. She’s the presenter of a program that is solely about women. I think she’s sticking her fingers in her ears and going “la la la”. Given that the BBC completely muzzled Jenni Murray for her difficult opinions, my guess is that Jane Garvey took a career decision to not rock the boat on this one, and so she had to park critical thought to enable her to do that. I always get the impression she just wants to get these discussions over with in case she hears something that will force her to have a difficult view.