In solidarity with JK Rowling

[Glinner]

The letter in support of JK Rowling from this weekend's Sunday Times is now available for everyone to sign. Please share using hashtag #LetWomenSpeak

www.ipetitions.com/petition/in-solidarity-with-jk-rowling

There's no such implication of 'only'. Your 'men would do it anyway' argument is fallacious - self ID and the current dogma makes it impossible for women to challenge a man. Not to mention males being put in women's prisons.

Implying that people only transition because they have bad mental health.

What would you call it though, seriously? If hearing the word 'woman' in an article will make you suicidal, if 51% of the population have to be referred to as 'bleeders', 'menstruaters' and 'ovary-havers' just to make you feel 'safe', you have a mental health issue, no doubt about it.

And is saying that by throwing open the doors to men who self identify as women into single sex spaces they are posing danger when in reality - the risk is still the same. Men will still go into women’s bathrooms and changing rooms even with the law of self identification.

Women's toilets can be a safe haven for many reasons. I was stalked through my local town centre by a man hissing vile, graphic threats at me whilst I was alone. I hurried to the loos and he didn't follow me in there. Phoned my dad to come and wait for me, and when I left, the man had gone. So single sex toilets can be very successful for keeping ourselves safe.

At the moment, a man in the ladies would look out of place, people would challenge it. You make it the norm and no one is allowed to question it, you're just asking for trouble. The old 'you're going to get raped anyway so I don't see the problem creating a loophole to make it 10x easier' is disgusting.

I'm pleased if you personally have no reason to worry about any bloke being allowed in them, but it's rude to dismiss the plenty of women who do.

Can you tell me why my reasons for feeling unsafe are not valid, but the feelings of all those who want to self id their way in are?

Pippa only popped over from Twitter, in order to tell women to stop having independent thought and to listen to what he and the other men say, isn’t that right Pippa?

Pippa is no doubt also harvesting screenshots.

Read this. I am leaving

What is the idea that by making some half baked semblance of an argument, typically an exhortation, and then running away, one has somehow contributed to the edification of anything?

It's playground standard of discussion. It doesn't really get us anywhere.

20,400 now. Just saying....

I love the fact that some of you were here for the count to 20,000. 🙂👍🏼

Bump

comments by petition signees:

more signee comments:

Tens of thousands of people standing up for JKR. Yet another reminder that we are not alone in our fight to stop women's identity and rights being removed.

This >

McCheese Oct 11, 2020I "support trans rights, and I support women’s rights. I’m concerned by the hijacking and changing of the language for women. I don’t view it as equality, it feels wrong and misogynistic. Everyone’s rights should be respected but I feel that you cannot and should not ‘vanish’ women by changing the language used. The level of vitriol and abuse directed to JKR for speaking about this issue is disgraceful. The amount of people insisting that debate, questions, or defence of women’s rights is ‘transphobic’ is appalling. This bullying and silencing of women, of anyone with an opinion that does not match that of the extreme transactivists, has to stop."

#NoDebate was one of the most chilling aspects of this whole phenomenon. FINALLY peopleare waking up to it

I started reading that thing Pippa. The bit addressing the "myth"
"Only a doctor / expert can tell if a person
is really transgender" is interesting.

"There is no objective procedure available
to assess a person’s gender identity. Evidence shows that requiring a transsexual,
gender identity disorder diagnosis or similar is neither purposeful nor appropriate
in legal gender recognition. In fact, applicants often adapt their personal stories
to meet the expert’s expectations in order to obtain the diagnosis and thus qualify for legal gender recognition. Medical
state-of-the art is to respect a person’s
self-determined gender identity"

So there is no proper way of knowing and applicant might lie. I don't really care what adults do to themselves but when you transfer the discussion to kids I would say a diagnosis most definitely purposful and appropriate.

Bump.
20,826

20834 signers

Thimbleberries that's really interesting - I have a lot of US friends too. I always want a gotcha moment, but that's not how those people can be won over. I go for salami tactics (starting with women's sport and women's prisons).

What are salami tactics?!?

There’s no objective test for a huge number of medical conditions and disabilities but we still require diagnosis by qualified medical professionals before medication and other treatments.

There’s no blood test for ADHD or autism or schizophrenia or bipolar or ptsd etc etc etc. We have criteria the qualified professionals assess by, criteria that varies slightly from the ICD to DSM and that criteria is continually reassessed and updated at regular intervals. How professionals apply this criteria is subjective, as it’s impossible for individuals not to be subjective. I’ve known plenty of kids get diagnosed with asc or ADHD after one expect claimed they didn’t have it, yet another one using the same set of criteria sees things differently and diagnose them.

What we don’t do is go around handing out Ritalin and extra time in exams to anyone who claims they have ADHD. Just because there’s no objective scientific test doesn’t mean diagnosis isn’t necessary or possible for millions of other conditions, gender dysphoria is no different.

Biological women are being redefined as..
Cervix havers
Menstruaters
People with Virginia’s
Cis women
Gender critical women who don’t buy into these labels are called
TERFs
Bigot’s
Transphobic
For this ideology to continue .. we can never challenge men who identify as being a woman, we are expected to just call them women.. no other labels .. allow them into all protected women/girls spaces, our sports and just shut up about it. .. hmmm .. let’s see if actual biological women will accept that when real women realise what is happening...

JKRowlingForever by salami tactics I mean taking issues one at a time. I don't believe that TWAW, but I don't say that immediately because after i say that, my American friends aren't listening any more. But they might listen when I talk about women's sport as an important and valuable thing in its own right, and how women's sport only functions when we treat sex and gender separately. The inevitable conclusion is that TWarenotW, but you don't get there in one go.

I see what you mean by salami tactics now, and they'd probably be a good way to address some of the issues with the people in that news group, if they were interested in the wider pictures.

Sadly, it seemed to stop with "JK Rowling is so disappointing, I can't believe she was so non-inclusive when her books promote the opposite". And they are only looking at this little bit of what she said that seemed (to them) to say that only women menstruate, that she wasn't including transmen or non-binary people, that she was saying that people who don't menstruate (like older women, women with medical issues) weren't women, etc. Or that the article she was referencing was specifically about menstruation, so using terms like 'people who menstruate' was perfectly valid. it's like they can't get over that one tweet and see it as part of a bigger issue, and they're not that interested, either. They just know that you should be inclusive and kind, and she apparently wasn't being. It's quite a superficial level of 'being inclusive' that they're intersted in, really, just 'looking like' you are being inclusive more than anything, saying the right things, etc. So it made it quite hard to defend Rowling against that, because there was this automatic assumption that she was non-inclusive, and that this was bad, and they were more interested in whether to be disappointed, whether to still like her books, etc, than in considering how it fit in context. Sadly.

Delighted to sign, thank you for sharing.

Thimbleberries I think their political context is very different to ours.