Woman’s Hour Tuesday

[Angryresister]

Apparently they will be discussing the GRA not changes.

Well that was a disappointing damp squib wasn't it? And yes I did think Jane Harvey was dismissive towards Dr Nic. This act had such huge repercussions for women's rights, and this half arsed segment is the best they could do?

dragoncheeselady this is the whole point for TRAs, this is why Woman's Hour are saying the programme features two women who have campaigned on the GRA. Heather wants to be called a woman, and I've had it with this gaslighting bullshit

I’m with you AmericanSlang.

I take it from their use of the word “women” in that context that this is also what they intend the word to mean in the title of the program. I’m done with them.

I honestly think that anyone casually listening to that in their kitchen or the car, without any particular inside knowledge, would have been nodding along in agreement to everything that Dr Nic said and would have been brought up with a sharp mental 'Really???' several times at HP.

Dr Nic spoke basic common sense - 'the need for women's single sex spaces hasn't changed' - so HP suggesting that this is some sinister, secret alt right campaign just sounds bonkers and undermined their argument further. You can just imagine Ms Smith of Tunbridge Wells, blissfully unaware of what's been going on for the past 3 years, thinking 'well I want the ladies' toilet to be for women only and so would all of my friends' and dismissing HP and their alt-right conspiracy theory without further thought.

I can see why the TRAs really wanted #nodebate to work. When women are allowed to speak uninterrupted the house of cards just can't stand up.

response on twitter seems positive and lots of people sharing Dr Heather's involvement in a scheme designed to incraese female representation and their behaviour towards Rose Duffield

That really was an anticlimax. The focus really was on Peto and Peto's reality. Dr Nic was clear, concise and cut off.

StandUpStraight I'm enraged at them, their reporting on the GRA and self ID has been pathetic, considering it's one of the most significant women's rights issues in the UK in the last decade, and now they are just full on gaslighting. You just know that creep demanded to be called a woman, and they rolled over and did what they were told.

It's real progress that Dr Nic was able to say that TW are not women though. She said it very clearly and firmly and kindly, and wasn't shouted over. I think the last time WH held a discussion on this (was the fragrant Sally Hines involved?) there was much interruption and maximum volume emotional drama.

This could have been better, and I'm very disappointed that Jane Garvey is still holding the GC speakers to much harsher account than the TW. But I'd say it was a big improvement on previous R4 discussions, when women were only allowed to speak through a scold's bridle with 'bigot' written on it.

@AmericanSlang

I cannot believe they chose to put Heather Peto on, the Heather Peto who stole a woman's place on an all woman's shortlist, who hounded Rosie Duffield for stating biological facts. I am not tuning in to a programme supposedly dedicated to women's issues, which calls Heather Peto a woman

Yep, appalling

Sound quality was awful.
Dr Nic was clear and concise. The other participant was me, me, me.

I suppose it is an improvement on previous outings for this debate on Woman's Hour but that's not saying much. Damp squib is right.

They cannot get a handle on this issue or its importance to so many people. Completely out of touch.

It's vitally important that women are repeatedly called "people" against their wishes, but a transwoman must never ever be called "people".

It makes me really angry.

What is the point of women's hour if not to discuss women's issues and what bigger issue have we had in the past decade then women's ability to define and name themselves under the law, to protect all their rights??

And yet women's hour have treated it like a small side issue, with barely lip service given.

And why have a male on to argue the other side?? Shouldn't it have been a trans man, so that it was being looked at from the point of impact on female people?

I have had it with the BBC.

But great for Dr Nic getting in, trans women are male.

We all need to be clearly saying this over and over.

Wasted opportunity again,
what exactly is Jane Garvys position re trans ? Anyone know

I think Jane Garvey is deliberately keeping her position quiet so she can still chair debates like this. Jenni Murray wrote openly about her gender critical position in The Times and obviously hasn't been allowed by the BBC to present any programmes on the subject since. All very sinister.

Being able to have a debate is a small advance but it still wasn't right. Pete was given Opening Statement and Williams was asked to reply. Why wasn't Williams allowed to have an Opening Statement, too?

What this shows me is that WH is hamstrung when it comes to talking about issues pertaining to the rights of women to single sex spaces.

There is something exasperating going on behind the scenes. I expect that someone has had to work very hard to get the slot at all

At least they are discussing it, badly and late, but, they have, at long last, discussed it. I think Jane Garvey is toeing a line, without her balancing act/performing-being-harder-on-the-GC-position then I doubt this discussion would have happened at all.

These are baby steps, but, they are steps.

Thank you to Dr Nic Williams. You are brilliant.

I hope Jenni Murray can speak out more about what’s being going on behind the scenes at the BBC when she leaves Woman’s Hour.

I found the piece a bit meh. Nic wasn’t given enough space to expand her points, and giving Heather the opening and closing remarks was quite telling in terms of where they wanted the debate to land.

@PigeonToe

I think Jane Garvey is deliberately keeping her position quiet so she can still chair debates like this. Jenni Murray wrote openly about her gender critical position in The Times and obviously hasn't been allowed by the BBC to present any programmes on the subject since. All very sinister.

Well yes, whatever her views, JG has been able to carry on presenting WH which has benefited her, and she's also leaving at the end of this year.

I fear that BBC is a lost cause now.
This rubbish about the 100+ genders is still up btw
www.bbc.co.uk/teach/class-clips-video/rse-ks2-identity-understanding-sexual-and-gender-identities/zfqrhbk

Jane Garvey is definitely toeing the line, although she did get very exasperated and didn't hide it all too well with Sally Hines whenever she was on.

What is the audience make up of Women's Hour? I'm struggling to think why it would have to be particularly woke, apart from BBC politics.

Wild Woman Writing Club has done a summary of what wa said on twitter

twitter.com/wwwritingclub/status/1310868333118590976?s=20

I found the piece a bit meh. Nic wasn’t given enough space to expand her points, and giving Heather the opening and closing remarks was quite telling in terms of where they wanted the debate to land.

Little has changed since that first Victoria Derbyshire (?) programme when Nic and Pilgrim went armed with much knowledge about the GRA/Equality Act and proposed changes and were asked, after a lengthy film by naice trans people, why she hated trans people so much or some such.

But Nic learned fast and become good at dealing with the interruptions. But they still manage the 'debate' in the same way. There is a lot of reasoning and information that people out there are missing out on.

It is frustrating and has made me realise what the people talking about BBC bias are on about.