Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Given recent events, I thought it would be interesting to trawl the Wayback Machine and see how the organisation has developed over time with regards to diagnosing children as transgender.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

2009
Gender Identity Disorders in infancy, childhood and adolescence are complex and have varied causes: in the majority of cases the eventual outcome will be homosexuality or bisexuality, but often there will be a heterosexual outcome as some gender issues can be caused by a bereavement, a dysfunctional family life, or (rarely) by abuse. Only a small proportion of cases will result in a transsexual outcome
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html

2010
Gender dyphoria, also known as Gender Identity Disorder, applies to someone who is unhappy with their biological sex and who wishes to belong to the other one.

Gender Identity is the sense of belief that "I am male" or "I am female". A child becomes aware of its gender identity before or around the age of five years, in many cases as early as 2 or 3 years of age. In most people their gender identity is the same as their sex, i.e. a woman or girl feels she is female and a man or boy feels he is male, but in a few people their gender identity and their sex do not match, and this can cause problems.

Gender Identity Issues vary considerably, some may be transient in nature, and some may not. They may arise when a child exhibits cross-gender behaviour to some degree or other. Some may be boys who prefer to take the female role or vice versa; others may have a compulsion to play with toys mostly used by the other sex (for instance, a boy who predominantly plays with dolls or a girl who always plays with action men and 'army toys'). Some children may only feel comfortable when playing with peers of the other physical sex, or may cross-dress from time to time.

Some children may be unhappy about their own biological sex and either wish to belong to the other one, or feel that they actually do; some adolescents may experience a crisis over a problem of gender identity or sexual orientation, or both. These situations can lead to considerable concern and distress for all those involved.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm

2012
For example, your daughter may say that she wants to be a boy, or your son may identify himself as a girl. Or perhaps you are worried about your child's cross gender behaviour, but they won't discuss it with you, and instead are isolated and withdrawn.

Or it may be you, as a young person, and you feel that your body is wrong, and that you should have been a girl if you were born a boy, or a boy if you were born a girl.
(Added to 2010 description)
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria

They seem to have removed their page about gender dysphoria sometime after 2016. However, we can glean some information about how to diagnose children from their parent testimonials

2019
"Kelly"
“From the age of two we started to notice that Evie didn’t quite fit in. I thought that my son was going to be gay, but it became apparent that there was something more than that.

“Evie always wanted to play with dolls, and never had any interest in traditional boys toys, like cars or dinosaurs. We had an older son and the two could not have been more different.

“Evie loved bracelets and constantly wanted to wear one, and when I bought the children Guess Who? to play she unclipped all the female faces and put them in a handbag to carry around with her.

“Evie would look longingly at other little girls who were wearing dresses or skirts, and every time I picked her up from the childminder she would be have raided the dressing up box for a princess costume. She would come to the door to meet me in a sparkly pink dress and a tiara with a big smile on her face.

“At other children’s houses she would love putting on the princess outfits, and would have a meltdown when she had to take them off as it was time to leave.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

"Denise"
“We didn’t notice Sally having any particular problems or issues as she was growing up, but her primary school was very small and the classes were mixed together in infants, so there was no real distinction between boys and girls or age groups.

“But looking back I can see there were pointers. Sally always wanted to play with the dressing up box, and she always wanted to be a princess. She always wanted long hair too.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

@DickKerrLadies

It really shows the homophobia that appears to be rampant within the TRA community.

I wonder what exactly Mr Green was worried about when his child was playing with dolls?

Some clinicians at the Tavistock think that homophobic parents are playing a large part in the increase in 'trans' children.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-feels-like-conversion-therapy-for-gay-children-say-clinicians-pvsckdvq2

A few things stood out for me (in addition to those awful stereotypes).

“It is not a psychiatric issue” - but at the same time they are worried about suicide for and 8 year old. How contradictory is that?

The little child saying they were both boy and girl and the parents in the same breath saying that the child could be what they wanted and that “she a was their girl for now” (born a boy). And the child was living in an all-pink stereotypical “girl room” that I wouldn’t put any of my girls in, even under threat of bodily harm. Parental influence much?

It's not a medical issue but it needs umpteen operations and lifelong hormone treatment to put right.

To be honest I'm now totally confused as to what being trans actually is!

As more of the pseudo-science gets abandoned the definition will need to become more circular and more tightly so. At the moment it seems to be heading towards "a trans person is someone who has a trans identity".

Mermaids now saying that it's not about stereotypes and it's not about being 'born in the wrong body', so how would you identify a 'trans child'? Are they now saying that no child can be 'trans'?

Are they going to get away with this? They seem to be getting support for their version of history in which they never said anything about 'being born in the wrong body' or clothes or toys, and t*rfs are the ones re-writing history. I know they always do this DARVO thing but come on. Are they really going to get away with it this time? The evidence is all there. Can people see it? Or will the woke blindly follow them, regardless of the facts?

Can people see it? Or will the woke blindly follow them, regardless of the facts?

Most see it. I honestly believe that a large number if their followers aren't in it to support trans kids . They don't believe any of it. I honestly think its a game. Go along with it, with the sole intention of seeing just what they can get them to do and what the sense of confidence having these people give them will make them do next. They get enjoyment from watching the overreach and the inevitable fall from grace having helped make it happen.

Here’s another fun list from mermaids (since removed, I believe) of “signs your child may be trans”.

To me, it looks more like a list of “signs your child may be depressed, autistic, being abused or bullied, may grow up to be gay or lesbian, or possibly none of the above”.

I’ve always been baffled by the low expectations of Mermaids supporters. Demand better of them, for goodness sake!! Better than emotional manipulation,data breaches, safeguarding breaches, pseudo-science, and all the rest.

Here are some of Susie's tweets:

1. Applauding a trans surgeon for saying gender affirmation surgery should not be based on age
2. Saying that 4 young people committed suicide because of gender distress. There has never been any evidence presented for this assertion (which was also used by Helen Belcher in Belcher's failed attempt to smear Janice Turner)
3. Saying that she thought Jackie might be gay at the age of 2 because they liked girls' toys and her other sons didn't.

Here’s another fun list from mermaids (since removed, I believe) of “signs your child may be trans”

Remarkably similar to this twitter.com/Mermaids_Gender/status/1116689347342942208?s=19 ( archive.li/tBBdg )

Even their current page uses the "wrong body" narrative (packed as right body, wrong gender)

When you are born, it’s decided whether you’re a boy or a girl, based on the way your body looks. But for some people, looks can be deceiving and they’re given the wrong gender.
mermaidsuk.org.uk/young-people/

‘Removal of the sterilisation clause is key’ ????

But for some people, looks can be deceiving and they’re given the wrong gender.

Nobody is officially given a gender - wrong or right.

This is bobbins.

When you are born, it’s decided whether you’re a boy or a girl, based on the way your body looks. But for some people, looks can be deceiving and they’re given the wrong gender.

They just won't give up will they? So, so much wrong with that statement, what is this gift of gender, who gives it and does it come in colour coded boxes?

evolving understanding in 2016

article 2016 Charities including Mermaids calling for medical age limits to be lowered for children and/or teenagers.

Dr Helen Webberley gave a child puberty blockers at 9 years old and sex hormones at 12 years old “He had been on puberty blockers since the age of nine. He would have to now wait until 16 to get testosterone. This child has always been a boy, never worn a dress, always played with boys"

Mermaids Susie Green “The mother was absolutely desperate because her daughter is 14, her daughter’s voice has started to break, facial changes and hair are around the corner, her Adam’s apple will become more pronounced. These are changes that will affect her for the rest of her life.”

Jay Stewart Gendered Intelligence wanted a lower age for surgery “Some people will be looking to get access to surgery at 16, especially chest surgery. You’ve got people who have been binding [their breasts] since they were 11, so I think there might be health reasons to offer that,”

Urging caution
Polly Carmichael Tavistock clinic “The reality is we still don’t have the long-term outcome data,” . What’s happening is our society is moving faster than the evidence base.”

Disagreeing with the charities
Dr James Barrett, a consultant psychiatrist, Charing Cross clinic
“If you wait until puberty has got a little way along, a fair proportion of the children change the clinical presentation and feel more like straightforward lesbian and gay kids. They don’t seek social role change any more and will end up with no need for lifelong medical intervention, surgery and with no loss of natural fertility should they want children.”

@ErrolTheDragon

It's a massive shame susie green wasn't on MN ... We went to couple's counseling, and what they said to us as parents that we had to agree, no matter what it was that we agreed upon we had to agree. At that point, Tim decided that I must agree with him, apparently, and then all the "girl toys" or "girly toys" as such were taken away and put away,

She'd have been advised here to ditch that counsellor, and quite possibly to LTB. And pointed to Let Toys be Toys (or if it didn't yet exist, be told to keep her kids toys by the sorts of women who'd create it).

Yes this. The entire horrifying, damaging scandal that is Mermaids can be tracked back to a homophobic father who was scared his son might grow up gay. Obviously it's completely on Susie Green who decided to then take this ideology to a national stage and influence others but that is the crux of it.

I find it incredibly disturbing as I have one son (out of three) who was exactly like Green's son from a young age, loved Princess dress up and Barbies. He grew out of it to some extent and is now an artsy, fashion conscious teen. He might be gay (he currently identifies as Bi) but so what.

That transcript is shocking. I agree with RoyalCorgi what kind of counsellor recommends that? The poor child being prevented from playing with toys because of the parents' desire to enforce regressive gender stereotypes. I can't say what I think about SG. It's just incredible that this organisation has been able to wield influence over vulnerable children. It's appalling.

I wonder if the national lottery are regretting the £500000 grant to mermaids?
This is payable over 5 years so presumably there is still a large chuck to be paid while mermaids are changing positions like a weather vane in a storm.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/19/national-lottery-to-give-grant-to-transgender-childrens-group

The Big Lottery Fund should hang their heads in shame for this. Ive known far better organistaions than Mermaids turned down repeatedly on the tiniest technicality while Mermaids were given time to rewrite policies and procedures. It was clear they got money because BLF wanted to support the 'cause' and were prepared to overlook the alarm bells.

of course lots of people will go along with Mermaids latest version of the truth at least initially because honestly they've got so much emotional energy invested in them as an organiation. It was the same with Kids Company - for a good year afterwards, people were popping up to say that it was all a misunderstanding/smear/lies, I mean how couold they not?

who wants to admit that they've allowed themselves to be believe in the face of all reputable research that children can be born in the wrong body on the back of a one woman crusade?

They also pushed the govt to fast track physical interventions for adolescents.

data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/women-and-equalities-committee/transgender-equality/written/19540.html

@BovaryX

That transcript is shocking. I agree with RoyalCorgi what kind of counsellor recommends that? The poor child being prevented from playing with toys because of the parents' desire to enforce regressive gender stereotypes. I can't say what I think about SG. It's just incredible that this organisation has been able to wield influence over vulnerable children. It's appalling.

Helpful to remember that this assessment of the counselling is filtered through Green's retelling of it. Her perceptions, and what is actually so, are quite evidently not always the same thing.

@merrymouse

‘Removal of the sterilisation clause is key’ ????

Yes, she has been quite open about her belief that sterilisation of children should be legal.

who wants to admit that they've allowed themselves to be believe in the face of all reputable research that children can be born in the wrong body on the back of a one woman crusade?

Its been obvious a very long time. Anyone still going along with it, well not sure there's any helping them any more tbh,

All I care about now is whether or not they are going to at least do one sensible responsibile thing and tell all the families they advised that they were wrong and they no longer need to medicate their personalities.

I have friends who have shared Mermaids fundraisers on Facebook. One is a mother of a child identifying as trans. It has been very difficult to maintain an attitude of compassion when the charlatan nature of the organisation has been so bloody obvious. I hope eyes will open now, but I suspect not for some time given the commitments made.

@Kit19

The Big Lottery Fund should hang their heads in shame for this. Ive known far better organistaions than Mermaids turned down repeatedly on the tiniest technicality while Mermaids were given time to rewrite policies and procedures. It was clear they got money because BLF wanted to support the 'cause' and were prepared to overlook the alarm bells.

of course lots of people will go along with Mermaids latest version of the truth at least initially because honestly they've got so much emotional energy invested in them as an organiation. It was the same with Kids Company - for a good year afterwards, people were popping up to say that it was all a misunderstanding/smear/lies, I mean how couold they not?

who wants to admit that they've allowed themselves to be believe in the face of all reputable research that children can be born in the wrong body on the back of a one woman crusade?

Kit

That is a key point. It's shocking that so much of the establishment rushed to embrace these unsubstantiated claims about children without any critical examination or considering the serious threats to safeguarding and privacy. It seems to be driven by a desire to be seen as at the vanguard of social justice. This is compounded by the 'lessons learned' paradigm where those responsible for appalling lack of judgement and dereliction of due diligence face zero consequences. This is a recurrent theme.