Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Given recent events, I thought it would be interesting to trawl the Wayback Machine and see how the organisation has developed over time with regards to diagnosing children as transgender.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

2009
Gender Identity Disorders in infancy, childhood and adolescence are complex and have varied causes: in the majority of cases the eventual outcome will be homosexuality or bisexuality, but often there will be a heterosexual outcome as some gender issues can be caused by a bereavement, a dysfunctional family life, or (rarely) by abuse. Only a small proportion of cases will result in a transsexual outcome
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html

2010
Gender dyphoria, also known as Gender Identity Disorder, applies to someone who is unhappy with their biological sex and who wishes to belong to the other one.

Gender Identity is the sense of belief that "I am male" or "I am female". A child becomes aware of its gender identity before or around the age of five years, in many cases as early as 2 or 3 years of age. In most people their gender identity is the same as their sex, i.e. a woman or girl feels she is female and a man or boy feels he is male, but in a few people their gender identity and their sex do not match, and this can cause problems.

Gender Identity Issues vary considerably, some may be transient in nature, and some may not. They may arise when a child exhibits cross-gender behaviour to some degree or other. Some may be boys who prefer to take the female role or vice versa; others may have a compulsion to play with toys mostly used by the other sex (for instance, a boy who predominantly plays with dolls or a girl who always plays with action men and 'army toys'). Some children may only feel comfortable when playing with peers of the other physical sex, or may cross-dress from time to time.

Some children may be unhappy about their own biological sex and either wish to belong to the other one, or feel that they actually do; some adolescents may experience a crisis over a problem of gender identity or sexual orientation, or both. These situations can lead to considerable concern and distress for all those involved.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm

2012
For example, your daughter may say that she wants to be a boy, or your son may identify himself as a girl. Or perhaps you are worried about your child's cross gender behaviour, but they won't discuss it with you, and instead are isolated and withdrawn.

Or it may be you, as a young person, and you feel that your body is wrong, and that you should have been a girl if you were born a boy, or a boy if you were born a girl.
(Added to 2010 description)
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria

They seem to have removed their page about gender dysphoria sometime after 2016. However, we can glean some information about how to diagnose children from their parent testimonials

2019
"Kelly"
“From the age of two we started to notice that Evie didn’t quite fit in. I thought that my son was going to be gay, but it became apparent that there was something more than that.

“Evie always wanted to play with dolls, and never had any interest in traditional boys toys, like cars or dinosaurs. We had an older son and the two could not have been more different.

“Evie loved bracelets and constantly wanted to wear one, and when I bought the children Guess Who? to play she unclipped all the female faces and put them in a handbag to carry around with her.

“Evie would look longingly at other little girls who were wearing dresses or skirts, and every time I picked her up from the childminder she would be have raided the dressing up box for a princess costume. She would come to the door to meet me in a sparkly pink dress and a tiara with a big smile on her face.

“At other children’s houses she would love putting on the princess outfits, and would have a meltdown when she had to take them off as it was time to leave.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

"Denise"
“We didn’t notice Sally having any particular problems or issues as she was growing up, but her primary school was very small and the classes were mixed together in infants, so there was no real distinction between boys and girls or age groups.

“But looking back I can see there were pointers. Sally always wanted to play with the dressing up box, and she always wanted to be a princess. She always wanted long hair too.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

Floral
That is a great point about the counsellor. Why should anyone rely upon its author's ability to be objective?

@SophocIestheFox

Here’s another fun list from mermaids (since removed, I believe) of “signs your child may be trans”.

To me, it looks more like a list of “signs your child may be depressed, autistic, being abused or bullied, may grow up to be gay or lesbian, or possibly none of the above”.

I’ve always been baffled by the low expectations of Mermaids supporters. Demand better of them, for goodness sake!! Better than emotional manipulation,data breaches, safeguarding breaches, pseudo-science, and all the rest.

8th bullet point on the list:

"A reluctance to do games appropriate to the birth gender"

I'm sorry, what would that be? Football? (Soccer is traditionally seen as a girls' game in the US and a boys' game in Europe)

Lacrosse? I always associate lacrosse with girls' boarding schools á la Enid Blyton, but I understand that quite beefy guys play it in the States...

And now Mermaids are denying this was ever about gender stereotypes.

As an aside to all the jaw-dropping backpedalling and gaslighting, I'm shocked that the CEO of such a high-profile charity, which counts Children in Need, Starbucks, Tesco etc amongst its donors, uses her professional twitter account to say 'You need to fuck off, you really do.'

Too much personal emotional investment. Not enough impartial, evidence-based expertise.

@AbsintheFriends

As an aside to all the jaw-dropping backpedalling and gaslighting, I'm shocked that the CEO of such a high-profile charity, which counts Children in Need, Starbucks, Tesco etc amongst its donors, uses her professional twitter account to say 'You need to fuck off, you really do.'

Too much personal emotional investment. Not enough impartial, evidence-based expertise.

Yes, that tweet is outrageous in pretty much every respect.

@AbsintheFriends

As an aside to all the jaw-dropping backpedalling and gaslighting, I'm shocked that the CEO of such a high-profile charity, which counts Children in Need, Starbucks, Tesco etc amongst its donors, uses her professional twitter account to say 'You need to fuck off, you really do.'

Too much personal emotional investment. Not enough impartial, evidence-based expertise.

bloody hell - if i were a mermaids trustee Id be telling everyone to step away from social media right now

and yes Mermaids has a massive SG problem. she's unable to be objective about any of it because she's too emotionally invested. You see it all the time in the voluntary sector. The type of people who take on one person crusades are rarely the sort of people who are then good at running organisations. It's a completely different skill set.

I am wondering how they can justify using the phrase "gender assigned at birth" now that they are saying that they have always said children are not born in the wrong bodies.

I know "sex assigned at birth" is a phrase used for people with very rare DSDs but claiming that people have a gender assigned at birth, based on their sex characteristics, which does not align with the gender they are, is saying that they have the wrong body, particularly when this results in alteration of that body.

If it's not about gender stereotypes, why is the word non binary required? I don't view myself as very feminine, but I also feel no real need to describe myself as non binary, mainly because I'm 42..its depressing that a 16 year old who likes sport, climbing, maths and jeans and t shirts (like I did) would probably nowadays describe herself as non binary. When did everything become so gendered??

What littlebrowndog said.

• bloody hell - if i were a mermaids trustee Id be telling everyone to step away from social media right now

and yes Mermaids has a massive SG problem. she's unable to be objective about any of it because she's too emotionally invested. You see it all the time in the voluntary sector. The type of people who take on one person crusades are rarely the sort of people who are then good at running organisations. It's a completely different skill set.*

Slightly (very slightly, CBA to look) curious as to whether the one with lots of m's in her twitter handle has made any response.

Shon 'enjoy ur erasure' Faye has tweeted 'The pathological obsession some people have with Mermaids is bizarre.'

Thank Christ the rest of the world is starting to wake up to the safeguarding nightmare behind the mythical creatures and rainbow glitter.

I'm surprised none of the trans kids supported by Mermaids are stepping up to support them - there must be several young adults by now who have been through the process facilitated by Mermaids.

Slightly (very slightly, CBA to look) curious as to whether the one with lots of m's in her twitter handle has made any response.

A very long response. All about how "born in the wrong body" was a simplified explanation for people, and how it was never meant literally. And how of course clothes don't define gender.

Interesting to watch what feels like the wheels finally coming off and wonder how many vacuous slebs, (I’m looking at you Hermoine et al), will start to distance themselves.

Great thread to refer to. Thanks. Hope Stonewall, Gendered Intelligence et all go down with them.

Didn’t SG invent the “born in the wrong body” idea? And now they’re agreeing it’s not true. So now whenever some woke person on SM tells me about people born in the wrong body I’m free to say “that officially doesn’t exist any more”

So, to recap: clothes, hobbies and interests don't define gender.

Biological sex doesn't define gender.

Being transgender is not a medical or mental health condition, despite needing lots of medical treatment on the NHS.

The wrong brain in the wrong body isn't a literal explanation of what a transperson is, although I have heard a lot about the brains of trans people being similar to the brains of people of the opposite sex.

I can't keep up. It seems that a child is transgender if the child says they are transgender. That's it. That's how you know.

Edge You’ve forgotten the timing as well. We’ve been told that gender is something embedded very early on, certainly by the age of 3 or 4. Then we’ve been told that’s wrong, it can just as easily pop up in adolescence or maybe adulthood. Oh, and sometimes it’s fluid too.

All over the place.

a child is transgender if they say they are transgender

And if they say that they are transgender, you are only allowed to affirm this?

Or is that gone as well?

But how do you affirm you cant actually define trans and cant resort to stereotypes. Can't let them wear the girls uniform any more or at netball as that's not what its about

It seems that a child is transgender if the child says they are transgender

What if they say they're a cat?

Did Susie Green tell someone to fuck off on her professional Twitter account? Where is that?

What exactly are they going to be training people with?

They can't say born in the wrong body, they can't claim the bodies are wrong. They can't describe transgender in relation to anything, to do with clothes/toys/playmates.

There is now no such thing as social transitioning, because that relies completely on gender stereotypes like clothing.

They can't rely on gender dysphoria as being a symptom, because sometimes it isn't, and anyway, it's now being called a sexual disorder.

So it's nothing to do with stereotypes, your body, or (sometimes) a diagnosis of a sexual disorder.

What exactly is going to be on the training leaflet?

Whatwouldscullydo

Sorry, cross posted.

I watched full clips of the training provided to teachers. One was, I think, a vicar who was a school governor and had a hidden camera. He posted it on YouTube. He got flak for challenging what they were saying and it was, of course, full of stereotypes
I hope that has been saved

Siablue screenshot by Clymene on page 3 of this thread.

(Apologies, I misquoted above. She actually said 'You need to fuck off, you know nothing.')