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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.

313 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/09/2020 20:11

Given recent events, I thought it would be interesting to trawl the Wayback Machine and see how the organisation has developed over time with regards to diagnosing children as transgender.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

2009
Gender Identity Disorders in infancy, childhood and adolescence are complex and have varied causes: in the majority of cases the eventual outcome will be homosexuality or bisexuality, but often there will be a heterosexual outcome as some gender issues can be caused by a bereavement, a dysfunctional family life, or (rarely) by abuse. Only a small proportion of cases will result in a transsexual outcome
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html

2010
Gender dyphoria, also known as Gender Identity Disorder, applies to someone who is unhappy with their biological sex and who wishes to belong to the other one.

Gender Identity is the sense of belief that "I am male" or "I am female". A child becomes aware of its gender identity before or around the age of five years, in many cases as early as 2 or 3 years of age. In most people their gender identity is the same as their sex, i.e. a woman or girl feels she is female and a man or boy feels he is male, but in a few people their gender identity and their sex do not match, and this can cause problems.

Gender Identity Issues vary considerably, some may be transient in nature, and some may not. They may arise when a child exhibits cross-gender behaviour to some degree or other. Some may be boys who prefer to take the female role or vice versa; others may have a compulsion to play with toys mostly used by the other sex (for instance, a boy who predominantly plays with dolls or a girl who always plays with action men and 'army toys'). Some children may only feel comfortable when playing with peers of the other physical sex, or may cross-dress from time to time.

Some children may be unhappy about their own biological sex and either wish to belong to the other one, or feel that they actually do; some adolescents may experience a crisis over a problem of gender identity or sexual orientation, or both. These situations can lead to considerable concern and distress for all those involved.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm

2012
For example, your daughter may say that she wants to be a boy, or your son may identify himself as a girl. Or perhaps you are worried about your child's cross gender behaviour, but they won't discuss it with you, and instead are isolated and withdrawn.

Or it may be you, as a young person, and you feel that your body is wrong, and that you should have been a girl if you were born a boy, or a boy if you were born a girl.
(Added to 2010 description)
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria

They seem to have removed their page about gender dysphoria sometime after 2016. However, we can glean some information about how to diagnose children from their parent testimonials

2019
"Kelly"
“From the age of two we started to notice that Evie didn’t quite fit in. I thought that my son was going to be gay, but it became apparent that there was something more than that.

“Evie always wanted to play with dolls, and never had any interest in traditional boys toys, like cars or dinosaurs. We had an older son and the two could not have been more different.

“Evie loved bracelets and constantly wanted to wear one, and when I bought the children Guess Who? to play she unclipped all the female faces and put them in a handbag to carry around with her.

“Evie would look longingly at other little girls who were wearing dresses or skirts, and every time I picked her up from the childminder she would be have raided the dressing up box for a princess costume. She would come to the door to meet me in a sparkly pink dress and a tiara with a big smile on her face.

“At other children’s houses she would love putting on the princess outfits, and would have a meltdown when she had to take them off as it was time to leave.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

"Denise"
“We didn’t notice Sally having any particular problems or issues as she was growing up, but her primary school was very small and the classes were mixed together in infants, so there was no real distinction between boys and girls or age groups.

“But looking back I can see there were pointers. Sally always wanted to play with the dressing up box, and she always wanted to be a princess. She always wanted long hair too.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

OP posts:
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HPFA · 03/10/2020 19:58

@HPFA

In fairness it should be noted that there are a few rather odd voices turning up on "our" side too.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1309750244947759110

I mean, getting a seat at the table is huge progress - saying that groups are "selling out" by sitting down with Stonewall is basically going to guarantee irrelevance. There is absolutely no possibility that any of the political parties are going to adopt a position of abolishing the GRA.

And just so we give the "other side" a fighting chance at a time when we're finally making headway let's publish a viciously unpleasant piece attacking our trans allies.

twitter.com/UGMediaLtd/status/1312035258343227394

Seriously, does anyone actually get how to "do" politics these days? Insisting on some kind of ideological purity test is one of the best ways to ensure you achieve precisely zilch.

Escapeplanning · 03/10/2020 20:25

That's a very good piece, I agree with that.

CopsCantCatchCriminals · 03/10/2020 21:23

@Escapeplanning

That's a very good piece, I agree with that.

Yep.

Mumfun · 05/10/2020 08:24

No it misrepresents the views of the 4 it has picked on. That is not a good journalistic piece

Escapeplanning · 05/10/2020 09:20

It doesn't claim to "represent the "views". It is the author's observations.

HPFA · 06/10/2020 10:43

Even more reverse ferreting:

twitter.com/Transgendertrd/status/1313404664398983174

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/10/2020 11:01
Shock

So what does that mean then. Nhs approved treatment is watchful waiting isnt it?

So where will this leave the affirmation model being used and the families already on treatment pathway ?

FindTheTruth · 06/10/2020 18:31

BBC video clip re Gender GP being mentioned 500 times on Mermaids forum:
twitter.com/PaulPfj/status/1313480810364915712

Siameasy · 06/10/2020 18:55

*shock

So what does that mean then. Nhs approved treatment is watchful waiting isnt it?

So where will this leave the affirmation model being used and the families already on treatment pathway ?*

I would like to know too. This is extraordinary. But the Tavistock are NHS and were doing all sorts so I’m not sure what to think

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/10/2020 18:59

I would like to know too. This is extraordinary. But the Tavistock are NHS and were doing all sorts so I’m not sure what to think

If they have admitted to not following best practice this should be national news shouldn't it?

Why isn't this bigger.

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/10/2020 19:02

I mean obviously it made the news but I dunno it still seems kinda hidden and would only he understood by those following.

You'd expect immediate emergency closure wouldnt you?

Theres been no mention of contacting patients. No more discussion on the court cases etc

PenguindreamsofDraco · 06/10/2020 19:21

Interesting suggestion on the TGT twitter thread that the pharmacy that dispenses Webberley's prescription is right by the good doctor's practice.

midclegs101 · 07/10/2020 22:37

@Whatwouldscullydo

I would like to know too. This is extraordinary. But the Tavistock are NHS and were doing all sorts so I’m not sure what to think

If they have admitted to not following best practice this should be national news shouldn't it?

Why isn't this bigger.

@Whatwouldscullydo sorry for tagging but in 24 hrs this is an old thread!

A response from the Tavi PR team on (not) using the updated NHS guidance, via an FOI request they refused to answer:

"In a nutshell, the information on the NHS England website is very high level and does not go into anywhere near the level of detail we and our endocrine colleagues do about the effects, potential side-effects, and unknowns around the physical interventions (puberty blocker and cross sex hormones) which young people under 18 are able to access. So in effect, the changing of the wording on that website has made no material difference to our practice as we already covered these issues in detail with patients and their parents/carers in our discussions with them and in the information we provide them."

Note the words "no material difference ". As they already provide enough advice.. yeah right.

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