Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance

[umbel]

Updated government guidance, released today!!!

@MichelleofzeResistance

I see we've progressed to 'safeguarding children is authoritarinism'.

Hang on a minute, identity politics is all about authoritarianism, if not totalitarianism and gulags, it's a political stance that loves that stuff.

Unless we're arguing that (like the extremist groups) some authoritarianism is good and right and fine and justified, but others is terrible and intrinsically morally wrong, and it's just working out who gets to decide which is which?

Honestly, it's all getting a bit OTT isn't it?

At least their direction of travel from here is clear! Thanks JJ for setting it all out.

So the promotion of capitalism would not be acceptable to the extent it was partisan political activity.

But a group like the Adam Smith Institute could freely give lessons, whereas Woman's Place UK are now banned. It's not prohibiting the promotion of anti-capitalist views, as you say there are already guidelines on political balance, it is expunging any organisation which may have opposed capitalism from children's education, along with groups such as Greenpeace or even Friends of the Earth which may have supported civil disobedience, or anti-racist organnisation who may support 'victim narratives' whatever that means. I expect the vagueness is deliberate as well, because if you wanted to create a genuinely chilling effect, where schools play it safe, then you would be as vague as possible.

I think the intent is clear, though - no one-sided, uunbalanced
extremism in schools.

@TheElementsOfMedical

How dare you point out the rank hypocrisy.
Consider yourself cancelled.
Everyone knows free speech is the freedom to agree with me, anything else is literal violence.
Love
NoDebate

@MichelleofzeResistance

I see we've progressed to 'safeguarding children is authoritarinism'.

Are you really claiming children need safeguarding from anti-capitalist ideas? Wow.

This is so weird.

In addition to the guidelines that you cannot tell children they are born in the wrong body, you are also not allowed to work with organisations with the “stated desire” to abolish or overturn democracy, capitalism and then includes various lists “freedom of speech”, gatherings, etc, etc” as something that organisations cannot be against.

This seems to be understood as simultaneously

a) part of guidelines that doesn’t really matter and

b) the end of freedom of speech and introduction of thought police.

Does it say anywhere that teachers may not teach opposite views? I read it mainly as a prohibition on working with external agencies that have these as stated missions (judged extreme).

It ensures that school teaching is balanced and young children not indoctrinated.

My understanding is that people still can campaign for their understanding that “a woman is a woman, even if she enjoys getting blowjobs” (Gendered Intelligence), various bad actions will make you rot in hell (most religions) or that the Earth is flat (various nut jobs). They just have to do it outside of schools. And parents have some influence. And safeguarding principles should apply.

If I were to assign a grade, I'd give 10/10 for effort and persistence, but 0/10 for actual effectiveness

@jj1968
Well perhaps they can get in the Institute for Public Policy Research in to the counter the ASI.

@CoffeeTeaChocolate

My understanding is that people still can campaign for their understanding that “a woman is a woman, even if she enjoys getting blowjobs” (Gendered Intelligence), various bad actions will make you rot in hell (most religions) or that the Earth is flat (various nut jobs). They just have to do it outside of schools. And parents have some influence. And safeguarding principles should apply.

But a group which supported the action taken by the Suffragettes and recognised that sometimes civil disobedience is a necessary part of demoncracy would now be banned. As would potentially many Feminist groups depending on how heads decide to interpret promoting a victim or divisive narrative.

I cannot belive anyone on the left is supporting this. And for what? The guidance explicitly mandates that children must be taught about trans issues and recommends Stonewall, your greatest enemy, as the only resource. It's just all about thinking you've owned Mermaids somehow, when they are barely involved in education anyway. And you're prepared to accept any old right wing shit as long as you get to own the trans, even though the recommendation of Stonewall means nothing is likely to actually change in classrooms. Truly depressing, middle class liberalism at its very worst.

[quote ChazsBrilliantAttitude]@jj1968
Well perhaps they can get in the Institute for Public Policy Research in to the counter the ASI.[/quote]
Wonderful, the left of neoliberalism vs the right of neoliberalism. That's real political balance.

Are you really claiming children need safeguarding from anti-capitalist ideas? Wow.

I'd call that radical interpretation of the text, but don't let me stop you enjoying yourself.

But a group like the Adam Smith Institute could freely give lessons, whereas Woman's Place UK are now banned.

Is that what you're worried about jj? That WPUK can't go into schools to persuade children of their views?

What is it with all creeps trying to get access to children anyway? At a stage where they still are finding their identity?

It is not the schools place to promote any kind of extreme views. If I came into a school with lots of little leaflets (complete with unicorns) and told the children that they needed to adhere to my religious belief or go to hell / burn in purgatory (nice picture of flames), I hope I would be thrown out.

This goes for all combinations of extreme views and mythical creatures / jelly babies or other sweets to make it cute for little children.

Leave the children alone.

As stated upthread, schools have always been under these legal directions to maintain political balance. It's only in the last few years since the bullying organisation were given access to schools to promote their anti safeguarding / and girl and women ideology that this was eroded.
Schools have now been reminded of their legal responsibilities, skilled teachers will continue to offer a balanced political and SRE curriculum and extreme groups demanding the rights of women and girls are removed will no longer be able to earn many £££ peddling their demands. And safeguarding children is reinstated as the top priority.
All will be well.

Tut - organisations & anti girl and women ideology..

they are barely involved in education anyway.

For an organisation “barely involved in education” they sure are peeved at the thought that they might no longer be welcome in schools:

twitter.com/mermaids_gender/status/1310177535129518083?s=21

Text: “ To be clear: the DfE guidance does NOT affect Mermaids because - as we told journalists yesterday - we do not offer classroom talks or lesson materials. We are invited by teachers to give evidenced, CPD-accredited training in gender awareness.”

Very peeved considering they are adamant the DoE guidance doesn’t affect them. I guess they are rightly worried that what they do offer is a variation of what the guidance explicitly references (I.e. just one step away from direct lessons) and what school will want to touch them now? They merrily endorse schools formally transitioning pupils behind parents’ backs (now against the guidelines) and don’t provide a balanced approach - I.e. watchful waiting as a valid path. I think any school now carrying out due diligence as per the guidance won’t want to touch them with a barge pole.

I'll hold my hand up and say I'm all for demolishing capitalism.

I'm not in the habit of talking to schoolkids about this, but when I do (only to my own kid) it's always phrased as "I believe capitalism sucks and this is why."

Under no circumstances should I be permitted into schools to teach kids that capitalism sucks. Ideological positions should not be taught as fact; this is indoctrination.

I'd have no problem in principle with being brought in to explain my beliefs, so long as those who subscribe to different ideologies have the same opportunity and so long as it's presented as an ideological position rather than a fact.

We manage this in RE; we can manage this here too.

Why do mermaids keep saying it is ok because they don’t train kids only the teachers? The guidance says not to work with these organisations and that would also mean not allowing them to train the teachers which is quite clearly ‘working with them’?

@TyroBurningDownTheCloset

I'll hold my hand up and say I'm all for demolishing capitalism.

I'm not in the habit of talking to schoolkids about this, but when I do (only to my own kid) it's always phrased as "I believe capitalism sucks and this is why."

Under no circumstances should I be permitted into schools to teach kids that capitalism sucks. Ideological positions should not be taught as fact; this is indoctrination.

I'd have no problem in principle with being brought in to explain my beliefs, so long as those who subscribe to different ideologies have the same opportunity and so long as it's presented as an ideological position rather than a fact.

We manage this in RE; we can manage this here too.

I think you are missing the point. Were these rules applied to individuals then you wouldn't be permitted into schools to teach anything, based on your previous support for abolishing capitalism. After all what does capitalism have to do with RSE? This is about expunging left wing groups from education whether they promote those ideals in schools or now.

the distortion 🤦‍♀️

The DFE does not say you can't 'criticise' or 'question' or oppose ideas. The DFE is very clear here when it says 'a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow'.

there's a BIG difference between teaching about something and endorsing it.

I may be missing some points but I'm clearly not the only one.

If Mermaids took the line that "some people believe they're girls despite their male bodies" there would be no issue with them educating teachers about the development and practice of this belief, so that teachers are better able to support children who share those beliefs.

What Mermaids were actually telling teachers was "some people are literally born in the wrong body: FACT."

If you can't see the difference between these two scenarios then you will undoubtedly miss the point.

After all what does capitalism have to do with RSE?

Sanitation? Education? Aqueducts?

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health...

@AuntyPasta

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health...

Central heating

Were these rules applied to individuals then you wouldn't be permitted into schools to teach anything, based on your previous support for abolishing capitalism.

But they're not applied to individuals, they're applied to groups. Can you really not see the difference between a person representing a group with an extreme ideological position being allowed to present that position to children with a view to converting them to that way of thinking, and a person who is a member of that group teaching an academic subject and never mentioning their membership of that group or their ideological beliefs?