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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance

999 replies

umbel · 24/09/2020 15:52

Updated government guidance, released today!!!

Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance
OP posts:
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31
Mammatino · 25/09/2020 23:44

She doesn’t seem to be coping too well with this, but she’s had a huge backlash. I can’t forget her recent sneery housewife comments though. There’s a lot of people who’ve really bought into this madness and I think the rugs been whipped out mercilessly from under their feet.

ItsLateHumpty · 25/09/2020 23:46

Opps sorry! Page hadn’t refreshed and i was still on p4 Blush

Will go and read the rest of the thread and find out my point has already been raised.

BatShite · 25/09/2020 23:50

Fantasic news, particularly the safeguarding part. May practices of organisations who push gender ideology have had some odd ideas about safeguarding, saw it even be made out that keeping secrets from parents was indeed safeguarding, as he parent might disagree with the child/organisation. Thats not safeguarding Hmm

Mermaids..just LOL. Backtracking but unable to backtrack completely else they are admitting how useless they have been, and how dangerous their 'advice' and lobbying has been until now. But the have to follow the rules if they wish to keep 'educating' school staff. At least on paper. I suspect the actual talks, unless recorded, are likely to be more pink and blue jellybabies stuff, they have nothing else.

DumplingsAndStew · 26/09/2020 00:30

That is fantastic update!!

Is there anything similar in Scottish guidance?

ItsLateHumpty · 26/09/2020 00:52

Mermaids have engaged the warp drive full reverse thrusters.

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/do-you-still-use-the-phrase-born-in-the-wrong-body/
Posted 25/9/20

Do you use the phrase: ‘Born in the wrong body’?

“Language matters. In a world filled with social media posts, forums, blogs and online articles; all of them demanding answers to be picked apart, it’s difficult sometimes to find the right words. That would be the case if we were talking about any subject, but when the discussion is around something so personal and individual as gender identity… it’s tough.

One of the most exciting things about our work over the past 25 years has been bearing witness to young people changing and moulding the way they express who they are. We’ve seen certain words and phrases disappear while some other words have moved back into everyday language.

One particular phrase, which has been used for a long time by people, is ‘I was born in the wrong body’.

We recently posted that ‘no child is born in the wrong body’, which is our broad position as a charity. Why? Because we believe that transgender people shouldn’t be expected or encouraged to reject their entire amazing, intelligent, beautiful, creative bodies, simply because of gender incongruity. Still, we also know some people – including some of our amazing patrons – do use that phrase to express who they are. It is your right to use whatever words you choose to describe yourself. As a charity representing lots of different people, however, we have to make sure our language is as inclusive as possible, especially for people who might be struggling with their gender.

Of course, the phrase is one we’ve used ourselves in the past and, at the time, it seemed helpful. Back then, the idea that anyone – let alone a young person – could be transgender or gender-diverse was a new concept for many of those we spoke to. That collective lack of experience meant transgender people and support organisations had to find some way of explaining what being trans meant. At best a difficult task, at worst a harmful and humiliating one. After all…

Nobody should have to simplify, redact or misrepresent their own innate self, simply to please the minds of those who struggle to comprehend it.”

/cont. but I’ll post Susie’s comment

“Mermaids CEO, Susie Green said: ‘Language is evolving all the time, and I find it incredibly humbling to be a part of that journey for so many young people. In the past, I’ve explained my daughter’s journey and her feelings in exactly this way. It can be so difficult to explain these things to people who’re hearing about gender identity for the first time. Certain phrases can make it easier, but no words will ever do justice to reality. Still, and I cannot stress this enough, it is not for Mermaids or anyone else to instruct people on how to describe themselves and there is no judgement whatsoever if you feel it’s right for you to say you were born in the wrong body.’”

ErrolTheDragon · 26/09/2020 01:00

Hopefully language will continue 'evolving' ... back to clear, commonly understood meanings of common words such as 'man' and 'woman'.

ItsLateHumpty · 26/09/2020 01:07

Mermaids tweet re that article. Harrop attempts to elucidate, fails and appears confused.

twitter.com/Mermaids_Gender/status/1309553254393548802

twitter.com/AdrianHarrop/status/1309555174063640576
‘ “i feel like my body doesn’t really align with my innate sense of who i am as a person, & i would like to make some changes to correct that”

“the current hormonal balance in my body doesn’t reflect my sense of identity, & i would like to readjust that imbalance with medication” ‘

To be honest, I wouldn’t know anything about what hormonal balance has to do with my identity Confused

ErrolTheDragon · 26/09/2020 01:16

So Harrop is still saying there's something wrong with those people's bodies which needs fixing?

FindTheTruth · 26/09/2020 06:32

the Guardian is reporting it

Government issues gender identity guidance for teachers in England

Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance
FindTheTruth · 26/09/2020 06:36

Guardian article has a balance of sources ... Transgender Trend, Safe Schools Alliance, Shereen Benjamin, Mermaids and Stonewall

moptophairshop · 26/09/2020 07:38

That Guardian article summarises the views from each organisation nicely:

Transgender Trend & Safe Schools Alliance: we welcome these changes and have been calling for them for years.
Mermaids - we sound like we agree by completely changing our stance to the point where if you removed our name from this statement no one would know it was us.
Stonewall - we'll try and sound reasonable about the changes but actually we are stamping our foot. We realise this shows us up as the aggressive political lobby that we are and now it's going to be nigh on impossible for us to exert our influence in schools.

Mermaids are proving to be the PR experts they've been all along. They know how to spin, manipulate facts to insinuate others have misunderstood and whatever you do, never ever apologise and admit you made a mistake. Unfortunately for them the archived evidence is out there, as are the families who they've worked with who will be able to state exactly what was said to them.

MadamBatty · 26/09/2020 07:39

I’ve don’t think it’s been mentioned. If they’re saying ‘can’t be born in the wrong body’. Then are female penises a thing? So I’m female, I’m in the right body so my penis is a female penis?

PronounssheRa · 26/09/2020 07:42

I think this tweet sums up mermaids position perfectly

"We never said it, except for when we did say it, but we didn't mean it. Besides, there's nothing wrong with saying it, although we won't be saying it anymore, except for when we will be saying it..."
mobile.twitter.com/intersexfacts/status/1309575268340830209

EdgeOfACoin · 26/09/2020 07:51

I like the Twitter reply about whether we still need to take the mantra "transwomen are women" literally.

Is this, too, figurative language with no basis in reality?

KnightsofColumbusThatHurt · 26/09/2020 08:07

How can they push this whole 'born in the wrong body was always a metaphor, only stupid people would take it literally' thing with any sort of straight face?

The same people now doing this, are the same people who talked about brain scans 'proving' transness, about 'hormones in the womb' causing a 'mismatch' between the brain and body, about 'female brains in male bodies'.

Born in the wrong body was not a metaphor, the desperation of these people in unbelievable, I'm finding it pretty fascinating to watch it unfold actually!

I'm another waiting for 'TWAW was only ever a metaphor you dumb asses'.

EdgeOfACoin · 26/09/2020 08:26

The same people now doing this, are the same people who talked about brain scans 'proving' transness, about 'hormones in the womb' causing a 'mismatch' between the brain and body, about 'female brains in male bodies'.

I agree absolutely. I had an argument about this with a usually-intelligent man who has a degree in biology. He was really pushing the idea that there are gendered brains and that being trans means you have a mismatch between brain and body.* This was also the basis of his belief that transwomen should use women-only spaces - because brain sex trumps body sex.

Also, doesn't India Willoughby subscribe to a theory about testosterone levels in brains?

*I found out afterwards that he has close friends who have a transboy child. My suspicion is that he either has to believe in an ideology to which he wouldn't normally give the time of day, or recognise that his friends have put their child on puberty blockers and set them on a pathway to a double mastectomy/possible infertility. It's quite difficult to justify these actions unless you can believe there is an underlying physical condition.

SerenityNowwwww · 26/09/2020 08:27

So where does this leave all those kids, all those families who have been swept along with this?

CousinKrispy · 26/09/2020 08:32

That's a very good question.

Sexnotgender · 26/09/2020 08:34

If no one is in the wrong body then no surgery, binders, hormones etc. will be required then I assume?

If it’s not wrong then it doesn’t need ‘fixed’.

SerenityNowwwww · 26/09/2020 08:41

And yet - where does this actually leave us re:gender and sex?

If someone believes this thing - they will still want to be treated as such. So what next?

Whatwouldscullydo · 26/09/2020 08:50

So where does this leave all those kids, all those families who have been swept along with this?

I seriously worry they will carry on now because they feel it has gone to far to change their minds. That the embarrassment factor will kick in they will double down.

Of course these groups have changed their guidence and the info on the website leaving trees families on their own with no come back.

I also feel though that parents need to take some responsibility. I mean fhey will spend hours wading through car insurance quotes and trip adviser reviews for rheie desired holiday destination but won't put the same effort into helping their child...

I dont know what to think really

NotBadConsidering · 26/09/2020 08:58

@Sexnotgender

If no one is in the wrong body then no surgery, binders, hormones etc. will be required then I assume?

If it’s not wrong then it doesn’t need ‘fixed’.

This question always existed anyway. Why have adult trans people been going around telling everyone that their male body is a woman’s body and they have no need or urgent desire to change it (“of course you’re terrified Alex, they chop your cock off!”) while at the same time doctors are offering children permanent treatments to change their bodies? Why has no adult trans person been on public record as setting an example, saying “I am who I am and I’m happy with who I am kids, don’t you go a changin’”?

I have my theories why, that’s for sure.

Whatwouldscullydo · 26/09/2020 09:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DeaconBoo · 26/09/2020 09:01

I also feel though that parents need to take some responsibility. I mean fhey will spend hours wading through car insurance quotes and trip adviser reviews for rheie desired holiday destination but won't put the same effort into helping their child...

I think that's really unkind. You don't know what these parents are trying to choose between, how persuasive and all-engulfing the "affirmation at all costs" thinking is. They were all told that to consider anything else was transphobic and funded by right wing Christians etc.

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