Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance

[umbel]

Updated government guidance, released today!!!

@jj1968

It is the fact that so many people just as you, didn't believe it was happening that proves how dangerous the last decade has been for this generation of children.

Mermaids have seven staff members. There are over 30,000 schools in the UK. So no, I don't believe Mermaids have been mass indoctrinating children in schools.

You're clearly not familiar with the notion that volunteers and consultants can act on behalf of a charity and not be on their payroll. My local Oxfam shop has one member of staff. Except they don't, they have about a dozen, only one of which is paid.

[quote YoBeaches]@jj1968 Staff yes. They are a charity. How many volunteers?

The only person talking about mass indoctrination is you.

I am referring to your blanket statement hat hey don't go into schools. When they have. For at least 10 years.[/quote]
I didn't say they never went into schools I said they don't deliver RSE lessons which they don't. They do run some training for teachers, but not much, they are mostly a support group for trans children and their families.

Indeed, the new guidelines ensure that Alex Drummond's gender identity must now not be undermined by the fact she has a beard.

Lol.

What is it exactly that makes Alex Drummon a woman? What, from here in in, will children be taught about what makes Alex Drummond a woman?

@titchy

I very much doubt Mermaids use volunteers as trainers, but even if they do it is not a core part of their activity and as such a small charity it would be impossible for them to have a significant physical presence in schools. It's just a conspiracy, like when Sonia Poulton and were mates were banging on about Common Purpose a few years ago. Theyve delivered a few training sessions for teachers thats all, and were recently part of a very small intiative tackling transphobic bullying in schools. There's nothing in the new RSE guideines to prevent that work from continuing although thanks to Glinner and the hbomb stream they've now got enough resources to focus on supporting trans kids rather than trying to generate revenue with training courses.

Considering you are so content with the new guidelines, JJ, you haven't half spent a long time arguing about them.

Theor idea of supporting trabs lods was to link to drs who were suspended for running an illegal clinic and then buggered off to Spain to provide the service online.

My view of mermaids activity is based on what they say, no conspiracy theory needed, or is it the case that mermaids have exaggerated the extent of their training?

Mermaids has trained professionals in the NHS, Police Service, Social Services, Schools, CAMHS and the workplace. If you are interested in discussing this further please contact us or visit our training page.

The idea that some aggresively homophobic bloke, or strictly religious family would celebrate having a trans child over an LGB one seems ridiculous to me

It’s all the rage in Iran.

Your first post on this thread, jj1968 was “Neither Mermaids of Stonewall run sessions for children so this won't affect them”, which you’ve now diluted down to “they don’t run RSE”. In reality, they run sessions for teachers, and provide a great deal in the way of resources and material, and campaign aggressively to have it used in schools. They’ve also been completely vile about organisations like SSa and transgender trend. This guidance will restrict them from providing biased and dangerous information, and I really struggle to see how anyone could not welcome that.

Many women on this thread have spent years researching and campaigning on these topics, and have extremely relevant personal and professional experience, by the way. It’s not all prams and weaning here, though you wouldn’t be the first to underestimate the place.

@HoneysuckIejasmine

Considering you are so content with the new guidelines, JJ, you haven't half spent a long time arguing about them.

I'm genuinely interested in what people think has changed and whilst I welcome the new guidelines I do take issue with the idea there was a vast conspiracy to trans children or that most trans people and organisations think being trans has anything to do with gender stereotypes.

Oh dear jj, calling a girl she, refers to her sex. Calling her girl, he, refers to the stereotypes of the opposite sex.

And it's not a conspiracy, when you admit that these groups do in fact go into schools!

I'm interested, to be honest, how it's going to go.

How, precisely, is anyone supposed to tell children how to determine whether they are trans or not, if they can't refer to stereotypes, playmates, or roles.

How are parents of four-year-olds going to conclude that their children are trans when all the information they read says nothing about hair, clothes, toys, etc?

It is a fact that the gravy train has been massively funded by the policy captured DfE - Stonewall, Mermaids, GIRES and the rest. (receipts are available). Hopefully the sacking of the senior civil servant has removed some of the pressure from lobby groups
Once you add in the finances that schools pay for misinformation training, resources, award programmes, adult mentoring for children (yes, really), policy advice, posters and the rest you can see what a massive source of income children are to these groups. No wonder there's a major rewriting of history going on at the moment in a cynical attempt to hang onto some of the £££.

A vast conspiracy??
Just leaving this article here for any lurkers who haven't come across it. It's very revealing.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists

jj

I'm.assuming you haven't seen the video by the Dr talking about pre verbal cues in babies akd toddlers either?

It includes such gems as rinbong barrettes out if your hair ajd a baby un-poppering a baby grow "to make a dress"

Seriously, you need to do some research here

Ripping

I do take issue with the idea there was a vast conspiracy to trans children or that most trans people and organisations think being trans has anything to do with gender stereotypes.

Over the years, Mermaids has had loads of stuff on their website about toys and clothes. Susie Green herself talked about toys and clothes when talking about her own child.

'Conspiracy' 😂 It's all there in black and white.

@SophocIestheFox

The idea that some aggresively homophobic bloke, or strictly religious family would celebrate having a trans child over an LGB one seems ridiculous to me

It’s all the rage in Iran.

Your first post on this thread, jj1968 was “Neither Mermaids of Stonewall run sessions for children so this won't affect them”, which you’ve now diluted down to “they don’t run RSE”. In reality, they run sessions for teachers, and provide a great deal in the way of resources and material, and campaign aggressively to have it used in schools. They’ve also been completely vile about organisations like SSa and transgender trend. This guidance will restrict them from providing biased and dangerous information, and I really struggle to see how anyone could not welcome that.

Many women on this thread have spent years researching and campaigning on these topics, and have extremely relevant personal and professional experience, by the way. It’s not all prams and weaning here, though you wouldn’t be the first to underestimate the place.

The situation in Iran is very complex and probably best for another thread. Suffice to say it is unique, and from Poland to Trump to Russia to Saudi Arabia, regimes which are opposed to LGB rights also oppose trans rights.

Neither Stonewall or Mermaids do run sessions for children, I'm not saying it's never ever happened but its not an activity they advertise as one of their services and they certainly don't run RSE. Stonewall do run the diversity champion programme for teachers, which is about supporting LGB as well as trans kids. I've seen no indication they do rely on gender stereotypes when discussing trans children, and if they did they were wrong, and hopefully they can now change their training accordingly.

This guidance also prevents TT and SSA from providing dangerous or biased information. So good news all round then.

jj1968

How does one discuss 'gender identities' without resorting to stereotypes? How does one talk about 'transgender children' with absolutely zero stereotypes about boys and girls?

Neither Stonewall or Mermaids do run sessions for children, I'm not saying it's never ever happened but its not an activity they advertise as one of their services and they certainly don't run RSE.

They, and similar organisations provide 'training, lessons plans and resources' for schools. They influenced RSE schemes of work, they were cited as resources for further information for parents and teachers in RSE curriculums. I know this because I saw it in my own children's RSE curriculum when we were consulted on it.

Neither Stonewall or Mermaids do run sessions for children

The stonewall home learning pack sandwiched the first person to undergo gender reassignment surgery ( fraudulently by claiming they were intersex and abandoning their family to uphold the illusion they were infertile) between gay rights actuvists and Martin Luther King.

Aimed at primary age kids.

You realky have no idea do you

Neither Stonewall or Mermaids do run sessions for children

Mermaids, as they are a support group for young people, run sessions that are exclusively for children. Possibly/probably not in schools, but run sessions for children they do. I’m not sure what you think they do on their weekends away if not that?

What biased or dangerous information do you suppose that SSa or TT will have to change?

The situation in Iran is very complex and probably best for another thread.

No, it's entirely relevant to this thread when you're questioning why homophobes would celebrate having a trans child over a gay one. The legal regime may be somewhat unique, but the attitude certainly isn't confined to that country.

@persistentwoman

It is a fact that the gravy train has been massively funded by the policy captured DfE - Stonewall, Mermaids, GIRES and the rest. (receipts are available). Hopefully the sacking of the senior civil servant has removed some of the pressure from lobby groups Once you add in the finances that schools pay for misinformation training, resources, award programmes, adult mentoring for children (yes, really), policy advice, posters and the rest you can see what a massive source of income children are to these groups. No wonder there's a major rewriting of history going on at the moment in a cynical attempt to hang onto some of the £££.

GIRES have an annual income of about £50k a year of which 20 came from training, its unclear if any of that came from the DfE. A fraction of one of your crowdfunders. Mermaids income was pretty similar until the lottery grant and hbomb stream last year. Hardly a gravy train.

Stonewall had £233, 000 from the DfE in 2017/18. Again in the general scheme of things this is not a huge sum of money. Enough to pay a few salaries with overheads. Not enough to mass indoctrinate every school child. In their annual report they say they delivered training courses to 2,300 teachers. There are half a million teachers in the UK. So about one in 200 teachers have attended a short LGBT awareness training course with Stonewall of which discussions of trans issues would be one small part.

It's seems likely, with more young people identifying as LGB than at any point in history, that Stonewall's services will still be very much in demand.

Indeed, the new guidelines ensure that Alex Drummond's gender identity must now not be undermined by the fact she has a beard.

They need to be taught accurate biological facts too.

So how are schools meant to teach kids about the biological reality of the female body/anatomy, teach that lesbians are females that are attracted to other females, then at the same time teach that a lesbian can have a penis? And vice versa for males?

It's contradictory, and it doesn't make sense because it's not true.

Neither Stonewall or Mermaids do run sessions for children,

No. No contact with children at all. Nothing to see here. Move along.

In their annual report they say they delivered training courses to 2,300 teachers. There are half a million teachers in the UK. So about one in 200 teachers have attended a short LGBT awareness training course with Stonewall

And that training is then cascaded throughout the school ( otherwise why train anyone at all?) by that teacher. And the school is captured. Its genius really.