Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance

[umbel]

Updated government guidance, released today!!!

It's like all these people on Twitter who are currently saying that Mermaids never said a child can be born in the wrong body. We all know its total horseshit, give it up!

The discussion here is in itself quite a helpful illustration of why it is necessary that this guidance reaffirms that safeguarding is something wholly taken responsibility for in schools by qualified professionals who have done the proper training, and are supported to carry it out within a set framework and structure of accountability.

It cannot become confused with any adult's personal feelings on what may be for the best for a child with a particular need that an adult may find particularly emotive or have sympathy for. It certainly should never be a process that becomes blurred, less robust or confused by the involvement of outside agencies or trainers, however well meant. Particularly when there are cases where those agency members are later found to be offering safeguarding related advice while not being trained themselves in the most basic levels of safeguarding that even the most casual school employees have to take, never mind trained in the levels taken by school staff who would be acting as safeguarding leads and guiding school policy on site.

And it's so funny that literally a few days ago Benjamin Butterworth called a member of the LGB Alliance 'a bigot' whilst reaching for the frigging smelling salts, because she said she didn't believe someone can be born in the wrong body.

And yet here we are mere days later being told that 'being born in the wrong body' was never a thing?

I mean, come the fuck ON! 😂

@jj1968 You know full well that Mermaids deliver training to school staff not directly to school children; but if you are claiming they don't have direct contact you might have forgotten they also have residential camps for children from (afaik) 3 to 19 years of age.

@KnightsofColumbusThatHurt

Which organisations? Mermaids have seven staff. I think GIRES have about 3. Neither of them deliver RSE sessions and neither do Stonewall. This idea that these tiny charities are going into schools and indoctrinating kids en masse was always a conspiracy theory. Have they been into your school to teach children directly. Or the school of any other teacher you know?

What you are saying here is nonsense. GIRES specifically featured on the lesson plans that were going to be delivered in my children's school. Mermaids do 'training and lesson plans' for schools. Stonewall have an actual schools accreditation!

Why are you peddling the total bullshit that they have never had any influence in schools?

You just seem to be like all the rest of them at the moment who, as it all starts to unravel, have their own version of the truth and will just keep repeating it over and over in the hope that something sticks.

The women on this forum have spent years looking into this. The wool cannot be pulled over their eyes. The game is up. Sorry.

THIS

@Whatwouldscullydo

I don't think it's the best strategy, it's awful and probably unworkable and something that should only really happen in extremis when there is deemed to be a significant risk to the child

And surely teachers already have an idea of which kids are at risk and already sought advice or passed on to the relevant bodies these risks.

In which case these children are probably already undergoing god knows what at home which would indicate that the trans revelation could come from some kind of trauma akd that should be investigated not affirmed.

Its these groups that are planting the ideas in the schools head that previously loving parents that have never been on the radar are suddenly unsafe because they might want to look into why the kid is coming out as trans and not immediately taking them.to primark for unicorn dresses and jo jo bows.

Why would this child be unsafe at home? The homphobic parents will be thrilled their kid is trans and not gay.

Parents who want to make sure their child is OK and not talking to dodgy people on line or genuinely don't believe in this ideology are a danger to the income and missions of the lobby groups not the child.dont fall for it.

@Whatwouldscullydo

In which case these children are probably already undergoing god knows what at home which would indicate that the trans revelation could come from some kind of trauma akd that should be investigated not affirmed.

I agree these kids are probably at risk, and that would hopefully already be being monitored. But there is no evidence that gender dysphoria is caused by trauma, and as such it would be wrong for that assumption to be made. Should the child seek medical transition there is plenty of scope for that kind of work to be undertaken by medical staff, not teachers. We're talking about names and pronouns. There is no evidence or reason to think that simply using a different pronoun, or name, or letting a child experiment with gender presentation is likely to cause any long term damage so why shouldn't schools just go with what the child wants and leave the psychology to the experts?

Its these groups that are planting the ideas in the schools head that previously loving parents that have never been on the radar are suddenly unsafe because they might want to look into why the kid is coming out as trans and not immediately taking them.to primark for unicorn dresses and jo jo bows.

No, they are opening up a safe space, with appropriate safeguarding, for children to be able to discuss their gender, just as Gay Switchboard did many years ago for gay kids, without it all immediately being reported back to parents who might be hostile.

Why would this child be unsafe at home? The homphobic parents will be thrilled their kid is trans and not gay.

With all due respect I just don't believe this for one second. The only evidence is a couple of flippant comments made by anonymous clinicians filtered through the Murdoch press. Nowhere, anywhere else in the world has this come up in the treatment of trans children. The idea that some aggresively homophobic bloke, or strictly religious family would celebrate having a trans child over an LGB one seems ridiculous to me. Yes maybe ten years ago a homophobic parent joked to a tavistock clinician well at least they're not gay, but the notion that this is in any way a widespread attitude amongst the parents of trans children is just silly. I've never met a homophobe who doesn't also hate trans people. You've got enough of them on your side to demonstrate that. Pretty much every homophobic institution from the Murdoch press to the Catholic Church to the far right to the Evangelical movement is squarely against trans rights.

’Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used’

Hallelujah!

There is no evidence or reason to think that simply using a different pronoun, or name, or letting a child experiment with gender presentation is likely to cause any long term damage so why shouldn't schools just go with what the child wants and leave the psychology to the experts?

Of course there's a danger.

Not only are you gaslighting the other children you are placing a child in a situation where its incredibly difficult to back out. If there's no evidence dysphoria is linked to trauma why the hell do they shut research down. Just ask James caspian.

My understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that previously, anyone who dared to even suggest that other issues may be involved was accused of conversion therapy?

yep.

Just like the research into the detransitioners was considered phobic too. Speaking of which, I have some gardening to do for James Caspian.

@jj1968 if you listen to the recording from before at around 6mins30secs the mermaid employee states "when I did this in a primary school with the kids..." Referring to the barbie and GIJo jelly baby drawing up of stereotypes.

It is the fact that so many people just as you, didn't believe it was happening that proves how dangerous the last decade has been for this generation of children.

I would hope that any trans person who has lived through the undoubtedly emotional and complex landscape of transition would also see the cause for celebration, now that hundreds of children will have a better opportunity to recover through appropriate support rather than immediate and unquestioning affirmation that could then lead to a later requirement for detransition.

Not to mention that once you get going on the pronoun bullshit, it becomes exponentially harder to argue that 'no, Gemma can't get changed for PE in the girls' changing room, however much 'she' would like to', or 'no, Ben can't share a room with 'his' best mate Fred on the residential trip'.

It all boils down to safeguarding. Which jj1968 is manifestly ignorant of.

Names I'll concede. No harm in letting a gender conforming child answer to a neutral nickname like Sam or Nick, if it makes them happier whilst they're working all this out.

So many people just didn’t know, had no idea at all... so many celebs too (furiously scrubbing their social media). 🤔

And so many woman (and men) insulted, threatened, vilified, ‘cancelled’ for daring to speak up.

@Whatwouldscullydo

There is no evidence or reason to think that simply using a different pronoun, or name, or letting a child experiment with gender presentation is likely to cause any long term damage so why shouldn't schools just go with what the child wants and leave the psychology to the experts?

Of course there's a danger.

Not only are you gaslighting the other children you are placing a child in a situation where its incredibly difficult to back out. If there's no evidence dysphoria is linked to trauma why the hell do they shut research down. Just ask James caspian.

It's only difficult to back out of if everyones constantly freaking out about it, I'd say let kids be more fluid about gender if they want. Who cares how someone dresses or what pronouns they want people to use. Of course medical intervention is another matter but not one that is the responsibility of teachers.

I thought Caspian's work was rejected because of concerns about maintaining participant's confidentiality. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

It is the fact that so many people just as you, didn't believe it was happening that proves how dangerous the last decade has been for this generation of children.

Mermaids have seven staff members. There are over 30,000 schools in the UK. So no, I don't believe Mermaids have been mass indoctrinating children in schools.

Have to say some comments here are illuminating.
It's interesting to see which bits are picked on to twist.

Lots of things seem ridiculous until you have seen the evidence.

@CorvusPurpureus

Not to mention that once you get going on the pronoun bullshit, it becomes exponentially harder to argue that 'no, Gemma can't get changed for PE in the girls' changing room, however much 'she' would like to', or 'no, Ben can't share a room with 'his' best mate Fred on the residential trip'.

It all boils down to safeguarding. Which jj1968 is manifestly ignorant of.

Names I'll concede. No harm in letting a gender conforming child answer to a neutral nickname like Sam or Nick, if it makes them happier whilst they're working all this out.

That is an argument about safeguarding other children, not the trans child themselves which is what we were discussing. It also has nothing to do with RSE lesson content.

How do you keep a child safe if you indulge untruths about their bodies.

Its that simple really. You can't

And if course its about safegurding the trans child.

A biological girl getting changed or playing sports with boys is at risk of injury or worse.

so why shouldn't schools just go with what the child wants and leave the psychology to the experts?

Because they (and you) have been told no.

No.

If you don't like it, take it up with the government.

Your level of denial is staggering. Mermaids, Stonewall, GIRES, all involved with schools.

GIRES has recommended cakes to celebrate children being transgender. And i'm pretty certain it was they who were involved in schools material, endorsed by the CPS, saying yes girls can enjoy having blowjobs.

Stonewall has advised the girl guides. Alex Drummond goes into schools as a lesbian.

Do you think we're new to this?

The women on here have been talking about this for at least five years in great depth.

Stereotypes have now been forbidden as a means of determining whether you are trans. There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body. Altering your body to suit stereotypical roles is out.

I couldn't care less what schools material trans lobby groups come up now. Because having already produced these dismissed materials, schools are advised not to work with them.

And good luck with pronouns. How are you going to call a girl he, when you can't refer to stereotypes??

I have just finished writing to my borough about the new guidance (the safeguarding team were not aware that the CPS toolkit was withdrawn until I wrote to them earlier, so I figured it was worth following up).

If you are writing to your local schools etc, and you are interested in helping out a bit more for areas that may not have someone actively writing, I have heard that the Baroness is happy for as many helpers as is available.

However, she is also pulling together which schools etc have been contacted and what the response is.

If you are up for helping (or updating her), her email is: [email protected]

That is an argument about safeguarding other children, not the trans child themselves which is what we were discussing. It also has nothing to do with RSE lesson content.

Actually, no. I gave an example of a transboy wanting to share with a male friend. In that situation, it's the girl who is identifying as trans who is most at risk.

& also, a central tenet of safeguarding is that it applies to ALL children. So of course it is necessary to consider the impact of a child 'socially transitioning' on classmates.

In exactly the same way as, as it was pointed out to you upthread, safeguarding frameworks don't suddenly stop applying if the child who needs safeguarding identifies as trans.

Your ignorance about safeguarding is worrying.

That is an argument about safeguarding other children, not the trans child themselves which is what we were discussing.

You really have no idea how you come across, do you?

You may be only interested in the “trans” children. The women on here are concerned with safeguarding all children.

It has always been very clear to us that there was a double safeguarding issue regarding the “transing” of children in schools: the risk of medical intervention and the impact of social transitioning to the child identifying as trans; and the risk to the other children in that child’s environment, particularly to the girls in the case of a biologically male child identifying as a girl.

While obviously I am thrilled that gender non-conforming children themselves will now be much safer, I am actually also quite euphoric at the thought that a generation of impressionable young pre-teen/teenage girls will (hopefully!) not now be indoctrinated into believing that they would be committing an act of transphobic bigotry if they objected to a male child in their toilets or changing rooms; into believing they have no right to boundaries or to prioritise their own needs and feelings ahead of those of their “trans” classmate.

I am beyond delighted that no child will now be taught at school by teachers they trust and respect or by external trainers those teachers have brought in that people can be “born in the wrong body,” and that we will hopefully see an end to this sort of gaslighting and emotional abuse of young people.

We have so much to celebrate.

And from the sheer volume of your posts, it’s very clear to see just how very, very pissed off you are about it.

@jj1968 Staff yes. They are a charity. How many volunteers?

The only person talking about mass indoctrination is you.

I am referring to your blanket statement hat hey don't go into schools. When they have. For at least 10 years.

jj1968 That is an argument about safeguarding other children, not the trans child themselves which is what we were discussing. It also has nothing to do with RSE lesson content.

It's about safeguarding all children.

You clearly cannot accept that Mermaids, Stonewall and GIRES have had a pernicious influence on schools, training and advice from these organisations has been used in and by schools and part of that training and advice is the deliberate misrepresentation of the Equality Act, informing schools that they must allow trans pupils to use the bathrooms and changing facilities for the gender they identify with and if any pupil complains it is the complainer who has to be removed - this is a fucking lie and is against the law as is the removal of single sex facilities from schools. These self same organisations provide hard copy information which incorrectly lists the protected characteristics in the Equality Act, using Gender Identity instead of Gender Reassignment and Gender instead of Sex.

@Datun

Alex Drummond goes into schools as a lesbian.

Stereotypes have now been forbidden as a means of determining whether you are trans

Indeed, the new guidelines ensure that Alex Drummond's gender identity must now not be undermined by the fact she has a beard.

And good luck with pronouns. How are you going to call a girl he, when you can't refer to stereotypes??

Are pronouns stereotypes. If that's the case how can you call a girl she without referring to stereotypes.

In the real world of course people will use a bit of common sense.