The NHS is run by misogynists, say women forced to give birth alone

[MillyMollyFarmer]

Tory MP Alicia Kearns has been running a campaign to make all NHS trusts change the policies around women giving birth and for pregnancy check ups during Covid. It’s horrific but I didn’t realise it was still ongoing now. This includes women who have lost their babies and have to proceed with the process alone as partners wait outside. I’m so utterly horrified at the inhumane way they are dealing with this. It’s unnecessary. Apparently Boris has backed calls but some trusts are just ignoring women’s requests. I find this so upsetting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8751493/How-one-pregnant-MP-fighting-stop-trauma-lone-births-caused-Covid-rules.html

"Personally I don’t like vaginal examinations or membrane sweeps, or induction of labour and agree that 4cm isn’t a magic number. But this isn’t a Covid specific Issue."

It was always an issue before covid, but covid has made it worse, precisely because of the rule about birth partners only being allowed when in "active labour", which necessitates defining active labour. Of course there are other ways to determine whether a woman is in active labour or not. But women giving birth (especially for the first time) don't necessarily know that, and may not have the confidence to decline the VE and request other means of assessment.

You make it sound like all the current restrictions mean only women have cut a bad deal which is bull. You call it misogyny but there are current problems for anyone using a hospital. Someone on there own being told they are dying is IMO just as awful as a women being told she is miscarrying. Being a man Or woman and being given horrific news should not be downplayed because they aren’t giving birth.

For the record, the #Butnotmaternity campaign was not started by the Tory MP, she is just supporting it. I believe it was started by the Doula Directory and it has received widespread media coverage and support from MPs and others.

www.thedouladirectory.com/butnotmaternitycampaign

The list of rules and restrictions for each NHS trust is here
drive.google.com/file/d/1LwCyr2pZk24LIGzdPUDM6RYCC_Nss1b-/view

@eeyore228

You make it sound like all the current restrictions mean only women have cut a bad deal which is bull. You call it misogyny but there are current problems for anyone using a hospital. Someone on there own being told they are dying is IMO just as awful as a women being told she is miscarrying. Being a man Or woman and being given horrific news should not be downplayed because they aren’t giving birth.

Getting bad news and giving birth are completely different events. Patients should be allowed support for both; it's not an either/or situation. But IMO giving birth is one of the most difficult things - emotionally and physically - that we do. You can't argue that a woman should have to give birth alone because people have to get bad news alone. They're not the same thing.

AnotherEmma

Thanks

It doesn't have to be either or and I wish we could look at how hospitals are for everyone. Women go into hospital for other things as well so why the focus just on giving birth.

I didn't find giving birth one of the most difficult things that I've done. I could list a few if it helps:
Sitting by my mother as she died
Watching my child having a GA and waiting for the outcome of the operation and then waiting for the growth to be analysed before finding out it wasn't cancer
Seeing a close relative saying the long goodbye with dementia

I know other people who have coped with things I can't imagine how I'd cope with, a baby they thought was healthy being diagnosed with a condition that means they will never walk, talk or do any of the things we all hope our children will do, a child going missing and never being found (the ultimate nightmare for me) or a partner dying.

I could go on but what's the point, everyone needs support. If we start a campaign for child birth, for parents with seriously ill children, for people with relatives dying and on and on and on none of them will be as strong as a combined campaign for appropriate support for everyone.

why the focus just on giving birth.

That’s what this thread and this campaign is about. Feel free to start another post on other things. Some think childbirth should have specific considerations so that’s what it’s about.

I didn't find giving birth one of the most difficult things that I've done.

And other women do.

@ancientgran One of the issues is the long term impact of women suffering birth trauma, not only does it impact the woman it can impact her family and her baby.

About 30,000 women a year, according to the most recent research, experience birth trauma in the UK.

www.birthtraumaassociation.org.uk/#

Oh and midwives and other health professionals can suffer from traumatic events

www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/traumatised-midwives-traumatised-women

Giving birth is different because its more than one life/ person involved.

My DF received a cancer diagnosis and treatment alone during Covid. He’s an adult, he understood why that needed to happen and was stoic in facing it. He only had to worry about himself and his only priority in that situation was himself!

When it comes to labour and giving birth even he was appalled when I told him this was happening ‘that not right at all’ he tutted.

Women are patients and so are their babies, if the woman is prioritising herself as other patients are, who is there to care for the baby in those first few hours? It’s not the midwives... the short staffed wards where they only appear if you buzz them.

No other patient in the hospital is being expected to care for another person whilst also caring for themselves. It’s Absolutely not the same and sorry but DH is an intensive care Dr... UK hospitals are not being overwhelmed and are not any more stretched currently than they were pre CV. Sorry to burst all you misogynists bubbles

It's quite unnerving to think that at one of the most vulnerable times in your life you are not allowed your partner in with you (start to finish) to support you and advocate for you when you might not be able to.

It does feel like the abandonment of women

@MillyMollyFarmer

I think that she was politely requesting you don't derail a discussion specifically about women and birth to talk about something else

Yes. Thanks Queen 👑

Was it meant to be polite OP? Because on first reading it read to me like it was snarky. Perhaps that wasn’t intentional, and that is the problem with the written word I suppose. But it certainly didn’t convey sympathy for a woman whose husband is facing a life threatening cancer diagnosis, which is a horrible situation for somebody to find himself in regardless of whether you think it is relevant to this thread or not.

@Getbettersoon I hope that your husband is ok

On the actual topic I had a lockdown baby, and I could not agree more that these restrictions ought to be eased. My husband has had a negative covid test As a condition purely of being allowed into the operating theatre for my Caesarean. However I was lying paralysed on the postnatal ward, unable to pick up my baby, unable to change or dress my baby, and unable to move into a comfortable position in order to try to breastfeed my baby. This had a significant impact on my postnatal experience. And everything went well for me, I can’t imagine what it would be like for somebody who had had a traumatic birth.

"I could go on but what's the point, everyone needs support. If we start a campaign for child birth, for parents with seriously ill children, for people with relatives dying and on and on and on none of them will be as strong as a combined campaign for appropriate support for everyone."

This is whataboutery and it's silly.
You could say it about everything.
The fact is that people campaign about single issues that they care about, and sometimes those campaigns are powerful precisely because they are focused on a single issue.
I'm surprised I'm having to point this out on the feminism boards, of all places.

It's a disgraceful policy and I didn't even realise it was happening. Fuming. How do we find out if it's our local hospital? Or just write to our MPs?

Really glad to see this being progressed.

It's horrific what some women have had to endure alone and the long term effects will take their toll both on the individuals wellbeing and on the cost of ongoing nhs services and support.

As we've said before, a society should be judged by how it treats its vulnerable, and birthing women, and their unborn/newborn babies need to be way up high on that list.

@CactusForever

It's a disgraceful policy and I didn't even realise it was happening. Fuming. How do we find out if it's our local hospital? Or just write to our MPs?

See links in my post at 17.57

@CactusForever

AnotherEmma posted the link earlier

But not maternity campaign
www.thedouladirectory.com/butnotmaternitycampaign

The list of rules and restrictions for each NHS trust is here:

drive.google.com/file/d/1LwCyr2pZk24LIGzdPUDM6RYCC_Nss1b-/view

@CactusForever

drive.google.com/file/d/1LwCyr2pZk24LIGzdPUDM6RYCC_Nss1b-/view

I'll just say there are more important issues right now, like actually trying to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed so that women can still give birth with trained staff there to help.

It's a health service. It's function should be to provide healthcare to those who use it, it shouldn't be the responsibility of those who use it to accept sub standard care because it's been woefully underfunded by government. This isn't a criticism of the staff who (most of them) work ridiculously hard in challenging circumstances without access to adequate equipment and enough staff at the best of times, let alone now. But can we not accept this as just the norm because it's not, other healthcare systems are managing to balance covid with routine healthcare needs, we should be angry at the government for it having to be this way. I agree that everyone has made concessions, some more heartbreaking than others in regards to being able to attend appointments and support loved ones etc; but it is a disgrace that women, especially those that are in for a stillbirth etc so have to do so alone. It also doesn't help that maternity services are patchy at the best of times, and that now even though the guidance has changed, many are just sticking with not allowing partners. The real issue is with the government, if there was an effective and quick testing capability then they could test partners and women coming into hospital, again, it's not down to HCPs. Women have been put to the bottom of the pile in regard to a lot of things during this pandemic, as this thread shows though, we are expected to just roll over and accept it.

Hospitals in Italy were overwhelmed

In one province yes, which was horrific and terrible, but that wasn't across the entire country. Yet we effectively popped the NHS into standby and cut services to the absolute bare minimum across the country, because it's a creaking system that's not far from collapse at the best of times.

Well said leafbeans

You might prefer it if all Covid patients were left to die in the streets while women were allowed a birthing partner in places they cant right now

This is such a silly response to my post. Shame on you.

It's a health service. It's function should be to provide healthcare to those who use it, it shouldn't be the responsibility of those who use it to accept sub standard care because it's been woefully underfunded by government.

This exactly.