The NHS is run by misogynists, say women forced to give birth alone

[MillyMollyFarmer]

Tory MP Alicia Kearns has been running a campaign to make all NHS trusts change the policies around women giving birth and for pregnancy check ups during Covid. It’s horrific but I didn’t realise it was still ongoing now. This includes women who have lost their babies and have to proceed with the process alone as partners wait outside. I’m so utterly horrified at the inhumane way they are dealing with this. It’s unnecessary. Apparently Boris has backed calls but some trusts are just ignoring women’s requests. I find this so upsetting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8751493/How-one-pregnant-MP-fighting-stop-trauma-lone-births-caused-Covid-rules.html

My view is almost certainly influenced by my own experiences of giving birth back in the 1970s, when women had little to no choice about their treatment. Because of that, I do feel that the exclusion of birthing partners because of Covid did play into the hands of those who'd prefer that the professionals could just get on with the job without any "civilian" interference.

Women in labour are very vulnerable. A birthing partner may not necessarily be a good advocate for the labouring woman, but is certainly a witness to how that woman is being treated. I'm not convinced that those misogynist attitudes of 40 years ago have yet disappeared.

So, yes, I do see this as a feminist issue.

Well, I've given birth, and also had a cancer diagnosis, and I can tell you that the last is in no way comparable with the first. Birth is hard and scary and painful, but you are having the joy of a new child, and labour ends after a relatively short time. A cancer diagnosis is hard and scary, and the biopsies alone are painful, let alone the surgery and chemo and rads... and it goes on for months (years, if you take on board the worry about recurrence, which fades but doesn't end) plus you don't have anything but the prospect of early death, leaving small kids in my case had I been unlucky, waking you through the night.

@Getbettersoon I so, so hope that your DH does indeed get better soon, and I'm so sorry you were met by that response. I think cancer is harder on the loved ones than it is the patient. All you have to do in treatment is as you're told, endure and be brave. Those who love you have to watch, and be powerless, and fear losing you, and that's worse. It must have been hell, having to send him off alone and wait at home, worrying and not knowing. Same with his treatment plan. I send much love, and I so hope he is like me, and can look forward to many years to come.

@wellbehavedwomen I’m sorry what you’ve gone thorough, however cancer and other traumatic events, and poor health care don’t out trump the issue we are talking about here that some women are having to birth alone and attend antenatal appointments alone.

As previously discussed birth outcomes are generally better when women are supported by a birth partner. Birth trauma is a real thing and effects not only women, but it can also negatively impact their baby, family and their relationships and can leave women traumatised for life. Midwives and other healthcare professionals are also impacted by birth trauma and events they see at work.

Maternity services are also short staffed (more so now due to midwives and other healthcare professionals needing to self isolate, and many midwives are leaving the profession due to burn out and stress). Its a known issue that there is a shortage of midwives across the UK, and whereas healthcare staff were deployed to hospitals to help care for Covid patients and help with staff shortages, this hasn’t happened in maternity as it’s a specialised area and not as easy to redeploy staff.

We simply don’t have the capacity to support all women on a 1-2-1 basis when they are labouring, or give 1-2-1 care whilst women are on the antenatal wards because there’s simply not enough staff, which can also lead to women experiencing issues with poor care that can also cause then to become traumatised and cause poor mental etc. So it’s important that women have a partner to support them throughout labour.

I myself had a cancer diagnosis and was told by the doctor whilst I was alone. My partner had been in earlier that day (I was in hospital at the time awaiting results) but he had to go home as my DD was a baby at the time. Yes that was a traumatic time, it’s been a difficult thing to get over (I suffer from anxiety and depression and it’s had a long term impact on my mental health) however I have sympathy for any person suffering any kind of trauma, so strongly feel that other illnesses and poor care doesn’t out trump the fact that some women are on their own when they labour, and some are still not being allowed to have a partner attend ultrasound scans and antenatal appointments when we can go to the pub and meet friends.

This is a real issue and very much separate to the other issues happening in the NHS.

@AnotherEmma

"I've heard of many cases of women progressing very quickly and giving birth on the antenatal ward or being transferred into a private delivery room at the last minute and their partner not making it in time "

That's exactly what happened to me 4 months ago with my induction. Despite numerous pleas to the midwife and complaining about horrendous pain, I was told I would only be examined the next day as the drugs take 24 hrs to work.

After my final plea, I was still not examined by the midwife. DS arrived 20 minutes later and my husband missed the birth.

I felt awful about it for weeks later, blaming myself for not demanding to be examined and kicking up a greater fuss, but then again I was in labour!

@Fishypants

It wasn't your fault.

Yes it’s absolutely disgusting.

The removal of NHS for anything other than covid also is.

I would March in the streets if I could.

The hospital I'm due to give birth in has a delivery suite and a birthing centre available.

I fully understand the lack of partners to scans etc and limited time/visiting to antenatal wards. I don't agree it's fair or kind but when the hospital can justify their actions with lack of space for social distancing in a mixed ward etc then I would be able to accept that if I was on the ward.

In the delivery suite, once patients are moved to the postnatal ward, the birth partners go home as there isn't space for appropriate social distancing on the wards. (This was initially leaving the mother and baby alone until both could be discharged although has at least recently been reviewed to allow visitors for 1 hour a day).

In the birthing centre however, where you never leave the one room you give birth in until discharge, birthing partners are also being sent home after 4 hours from birth with the sole reasoning of "delivery suite birth partners go home so birthing centre partners to home to make it equal".

To me this is basically saying "we absolutely can reasonably allow your partner stay to support you, BUT, we're not going to."

Well, I've given birth, and also had a cancer diagnosis, and I can tell you that the last is in no way comparable with the first. Birth is hard and scary and painful, but you are having the joy of a new child, and labour ends after a relatively short time. A cancer diagnosis is hard and scary, and the biopsies alone are painful, let alone the surgery and chemo and rads... and it goes on for months (years, if you take on board the worry about recurrence, which fades but doesn't end) plus you don't have anything but the prospect of early death, leaving small kids in my case had I been unlucky, waking you through the night.

Which is the crux of the point. If having a partner with you during cancer treatment meant you were more likely to survive or live longer, then the argument is comparable. But sadly it simply isn't the case.

Not all pregnancies end with a joyful live birth. Not all births end with a healthy baby. Not all births end with a healthy mother and sadly though rare, some mothers won't survive at all.

Decisions about drugs, treatment, emergency c sections, undetected complications - all whilst you are stuck as an immobile life support vessel to your unborn child.

Then there's the absence of post natal health checks, breastfeeding support, those crucial baby weigh ins for the first few weeks, general access to advice, support and communication - all stopped overnight.

By what percentage will PND have increased this year when retrospective diagnosis catch up next year?

I'll repeat what other pp's have said - it's proven that birth partners improve outcomes for mother and baby. It is nonsensical for this to be ignored.

it's proven that birth partners improve outcomes for mother and baby. It is nonsensical for this to be ignored.

It is and that’s why it hasn’t been and official guidance allows partners in. The issue is some trusts are doing whatever they want.

Well put @yukka

I felt awful about it for weeks later, blaming myself for not demanding to be examined and kicking up a greater fuss, but then again I was in labour!

I’m sorry that happened to you, it really wasn’t your fault as you asked to be examined. You shouldn’t have to battle for appropriate care during labour

It’s a real shame this thread couldn’t just focus on my OP and the campaign. The article and stories are so sad and yet apparently I’m truly awful for not extending sympathy to someone raising a separate issue, after having zero sympathy for women in this situation in her post. Interesting.

Lots of people are facing awful things when in desperate situations regarding their health atm. You can either believe it's done to try and keep everyone safe or to be spiteful or to make the hospital's life easier, but I don't think it's just about women

I don’t see why I should be berated for not immediately extending sympathy to someone who posted the above.

@longcoffee

I am so sorry to hear that. My condolences.

@Getbettersoon I hope your husband has a positive outcome to his diagnosis.

I got diagnosed with cancer in March and was lucky enough to be able to have someone sat with me.

Treatment I had to do alone due to Covid. I'm a woman though, so I guess that's ok for me to post.

The reply didn't read polite to me either. It read very dismissive and unfeeling tbh.

I don’t know why I thought anything could just focus on women and maternity care. Heaven forbid. The woman you’re extending sympathy to extended none for women in this position but fine. Derail my thread repeatedly. Whatever.

Birth is hard and scary and painful, but you are having the joy of a new child

Actually not everyone does.

Thanks OP for highlighting this. There is a bit of chat on this over on Childbirth, showing that it can be very anxiety inducing. Not to mention (and I hate to do this, but perhaps it's the only way it gets taken seriously) men lose out as well from these rules. They are parents too, and to have to risk not being there for the birth of your child is pretty rotten, or there to support your partner if something goes wrong. Yes not all men are helpful, or want to be involved, but some are and do.

To the wider point, I don't think a lot of the rules in hospitals are reasonable for serious situations such as life changing diagnoses or end of life care, and welcome a discussion about why these frankly inhuman restrictions are in place. However, in this instance we are talking about how these restrictions impact a uniquely female experience, which may be partly driven by misogyny. Some hospitals are still insisting on internal examinations on women in order to access care, unaware they can refuse, or that if admitted for observation will be completely alone for early labour, at least. The fact that some hospitals have been slow to implement the updated guidance certainly implies that maternity is less of a priority when looking at providing quality care. Now why might that be?

and attend antenatal appointments alone

And so what? They are women, not children.

@DidoLamenting

and attend antenatal appointments alone

And so what? They are women, not children.

Fine for most women but probably not for women who have had still births, miscarriages and serious complications in pregnancy; they might find appointments very difficult and might need support.

Thanks @bythehairsonmychinichinchin.

@DidoLamenting

and attend antenatal appointments alone

And so what? They are women, not children.

That's pretty a misogynistic viewpoint in itself. It's one thing to provide valuable debate and another to reduce the experience of all women to the limitations of your own.

I had a 'lockdown baby' 4 weeks ago. High risk pregnancy with lots of second trimester scares and issues, the restrictions came in just before my 12 week scan so DP didn't come to any appointments after that.
I survived, I'm pretty resilient, but it really made me resent him and damaged our relationship for a time. Not that it was his fault he couldn't be there, but when we decided to try for a baby it was on the understanding that he would support me and look after me and I ended up carrying the emotional and physical can for both of us. I also had to make all the decisions as I'd 'heard what the Dr said first hand'. I'm fully aware as a woman only I can physically bear and birth a baby but I felt a really strong sense of this not being what I signed up for when we decided to have a baby, a process which these days involves both parents to a greater extent than perhaps it has in the past.
I'm a bit annoyed that this issue is only being publicised so much now as restrictions have been in place since all this kicked off, a good 5 months ago. Is this because some trusts are lifting restrictions and it's highlighting the variations in policy from trust to trust?

Not really a lockdown baby in hindsight but as far as the hospital restrictions go I would class it as such!

I think it might be because so many other restrictions have been lifted (in everyday life) over the last few months that it seems even more unfair that we still have so many restrictions in place for maternity services.

At the beginning of lockdown, when schools, childcare, shops, restaurants, pubs and bars were still closed, there was a higher level of anxiety and tolerance of restrictions, and I suspect that there would have been less sympathy and support for this campaign.

@MillyMollyFarmer

I have had 5 friends give birth since March, all have been allowed partners with them including the one with a c-section. Not sure where you are getting your information from but it's not correct