The NHS is run by misogynists, say women forced to give birth alone

[MillyMollyFarmer]

Tory MP Alicia Kearns has been running a campaign to make all NHS trusts change the policies around women giving birth and for pregnancy check ups during Covid. It’s horrific but I didn’t realise it was still ongoing now. This includes women who have lost their babies and have to proceed with the process alone as partners wait outside. I’m so utterly horrified at the inhumane way they are dealing with this. It’s unnecessary. Apparently Boris has backed calls but some trusts are just ignoring women’s requests. I find this so upsetting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8751493/How-one-pregnant-MP-fighting-stop-trauma-lone-births-caused-Covid-rules.html

Many hospitals only allow partners into the ward once the woman is dilated more than 1.5in (4cm), and Ms Kearns points out that, even in 36 hours, she never got that far – an indication that such one-size-fits-all rules do not work.

The article I posted is worth reading.

This is a tricky issue. I think ultimately there can’t just be this sweeping statement that lowering the risk of covid is all that matters, and that all these measures will be taken even if they’re not completely sure it will lower the risk that much.

For example they could have prevented birth partners completely in the initial lockdown and a lot of people would have seen nothing wrong with this. However weighing up the risks it was decided that women going without birth partners would be a lot more damaging than the extra risk of covid.

I think everything needs to be looked at this way- how much does this actually lower the risk of covid? What are the potential effects on women, physically and mentally? Could it effect outcomes? What is actually more damaging in this situation?

Rules also need to be clearly explained and justified to women, and regularly reviewed as things change.

"Why can't everything be about everything?" moan the whataboutists.

I fail to see what men bring to the labour room in terms of support.

Well that’s ok for you. But a lot of women say they need and appreciate it, and data suggests it affects birth outcomes- as women are in a vulnerable position a partner can pick up important things regarding care.

jellybeanbonbon Thank you, you’ve worded it all better than I can and I totally agree

It's a strange discussion when you only allow contributions from those who agree with you OP, but as you wish.

RuffleCrow I know right? Geez

Getbettersoon You don’t have to agree but you should keep to the thread topic. That’s not unreasonable.

@Getbettersoon

It's a strange discussion when you only allow contributions from those who agree with you OP, but as you wish.

It's a strange discussion when you only allow contributions from those who agree with you OP, but as you wish.

I think that she was politely requesting you don't derail a discussion specifically about women and birth to talk about something else.

You are, I'm sure, welcome to discuss the actual topic of the post.

Didn't mean to do a weird double-quote thing there.

I feel desperately sad for women facing going through any kind of birth without someone there. I know that some women would rather not have their partner there, but many definitely would. It's a terrifying thing to go through alone, you may need someone to advocate for you, and the father also may strongly wish to be there for the baby from the start.

"The guidance throughout Covid 19 has always been to allow 1 birth partner whilst women are in labour including CS."

At the beginning of lockdown, some hospitals did actually ban birth partners completely.

Most hospitals only allow women to be accompanied by a birth partner when she is in "active labour" and given that their standard method of determining active labour is to do a vaginal examination and decide whether she has reached the magic number of 4cm dilated, this essentially means that women are being coerced into vaginal examinations.

If that's not a feminist issue, I don't know what is.

Women going in for inductions don't have their partners with them, women in early labour on the antenatal wards are literally labouring alone because they're not allowed a birth partner yet and the midwife doesn't stay with you at the beginning, they check on you intermittently and we all know how underresourced and overworked they all are - women end up being abandoned. I've heard of many cases of women progressing very quickly and giving birth on the antenatal ward or being transferred into a private delivery room at the last minute and their partner not making it in time or only just getting there in time. They get to see the birth but the women doesn't get their support for everything that happens before the baby is born (which is when we need a birth partner IMO, the midwife is there at the end).

But that's all ok because covid

@MillyMollyFarmer bythehairsonmychinichinchin you’re right, which is why this MP is so cross about it!

It needs to targeted to offending trusts that haven’t been following RCOG guidance, as each trust works works differently. However I do feel that partners (1 other person) should now be allowed to attend antenatal appointments especially for high risk pregnancies, however it’s not uncommon for women to attend appointments on their own.

I work in maternity. My trust has been pretty much BAU for antenatal appointments other than the booking appointment is over the phone (bloods are done in clinic as it makes the hour long appointment shorter, and actually in my opinion works better as we still see women) scans were just women and no partners however 1 other person can now attend.

There are still restrictions on visiting and attending clinics, but this is inline with other hospital wards and not happening in maternity/obstetrics.

From what I’ve seen whilst working in hospital and community most midwives will accommodate partners especially in difficult circumstances. We are trying our best in challenging circumstances

I think the way it works is people can come on and add to a discussion without the permission of the OP.

I find it hard to understand people that can'texpress any support for someone with such a difficult diagnosis just because it happens to be a man.

Just to clarify "birth partner" doesn't necessarily mean the father of the child, it could also mean the woman's mother, sister, friend or doula.

So you can argue all you like that a man is not always helpful (and I'd actually agree with you, DH wasn't particularly, sadly) but the point is that a woman should be able to have the person she chooses with her.

@AnotherEmma yes induction of labour is another issue. The problem is no one can predict how long it will take, and most units don’t allow birth partners over night on the induction suites so there’s always the chance that women could labour without a birth partner.

Personally I don’t like vaginal examinations or membrane sweeps, or induction of labour and agree that 4cm isn’t a magic number. But this isn’t a Covid specific Issue.

I find it hard to understand people that can'texpress any support for someone with such a difficult diagnosis just because it happens to be a man

I can. But I won’t respond to it here, in this context, as I resent emotional manipulation particularly when I’m trying to discuss something affecting women. I really hate that. I think it’s fine for me to stick to the topic here.

AnotherEmma

Thank you for your thoughtful post. It’s the abandonment situation I find most distressing.

In fact I feel that the restrictions on birth partners has been positive for some women, especially for those in abusive relationships.

It needs to targeted to offending trusts that haven’t been following RCOG guidance, as each trust works works differently.

Yes, they have convinced some to change but I need to find a list. There’s not one in the article

I think that she was politely requesting you don't derail a discussion specifically about women and birth to talk about something else

Yes. Thanks Queen 👑

Yeah it’s birth partners so not strictly men. I’d imagine that among some groups of expectant mums (eg young teenage girls) that having their mother there is more common than the dad. Or women who have just come out of abusive relationships (and may also have sexual abuse trauma)

this essentially means that women are being coerced into vaginal examinations.

Yes this is another thing that has been picked up on as concerning. Essentially it’s ‘let this person put their fingers in your vagina or you won’t be allowed your birth partner in here to support you’

Essentially it’s ‘let this person put their fingers in your vagina or you won’t be allowed your birth partner in here to support you’

That is so grim. Clearly a feminist issue!

@Yes, they have convinced some to change but I need to find a list. There’s not one in the article

That’s good news. I agree with some women having abandonment issues, and suffering from trauma. However I honestly believe the restrictions have been positive for a lot of women, it’s meant less visitors which some women find difficult to deal with especially if they’ve had a traumatic experience, and sometimes partners can contribute to women’s anxieties as they also feel responsible for their partners feelings

I gave birth to my two children in the late seventies without my husband being present, that's just how it was then.

Yeah it was. But it’s good it isn’t meant to be now as it means improved outcomes for mother and baby and that’s really the important thing.