Lib Dem’s definition of transphobia

[Kit19]

They are the gift that keeps on giving 😆 they will never be near national government again but they tend to go better in local elections so if you get/have a LD council

Linky?

www.libdemvoice.org/liberal-democrats-adopt-definition-of-transphobia-65868.html

The problem that they still don’t get is that most people don’t believe in an innate gender identity

As the religious parallel goes so many times. You can believe in god as much as you want & I won’t stop you. What you can’t do is force me to believe in god as well

Sorry I couldn't read all of that.
Although the message was LOUD AND CLEAR: WOMEN SHUT UP

I wish someone would let us know what rights are being rolled back because they are to able to participate fully in life provided the respect the same rules as everyone else.

What they cant do is access half naked members of the opposite sex without their consent. Is that a right anyone e(se has?

Please someone let us know what rights are in question

I've been "misgendered " or miss-named hundreds of times why is it only a problem when it happens to them?

God if I had a pound for every time my surname was misspelled or mispronounced I'd be a billionaire by now.

Using phrases or language to describe trans people which are designed to suggest that trans people are a separate category of person from the gender they identify as or that their gender identity is not valid. Current examples include referring to a trans woman or non-binary person as a “biological man” or a trans man or non-binary person as a “biological woman”, which eradicates the trans person’s gender identity in favour of their biology at birth.

They have lost the plot.

I think we’ve come a long way and as polls show most people do not consider themselves transphobic.

What this seems to mean in practice is people will accept someone who looks convincingly of the sex they’ve transitioned to as a man/woman (if target ends had surgery) but don’t buy it if they still look obviously male/female. But most people will still be pretty respectful and the majority would be up in arms over violence or bullying towards a trans person and most people are against trans people being denied access to healthcare, jobs (with sex based exemptions) or housing. How common it is for trans people in the UK to be denied work/healthcare/housing I don’t know but I think they’re fairly safe. Happy to be corrected.

What most members of the public don’t consider transphobic is believing a man can become an actual woman (and vice versa), believing women have rights separate to transwomen (and vice versa) or using the word “woman” to describe those who menstruate.

This will clash with what TRA campaigners want and that’s when people go “hang on...” and it’s a problem that isn’t going to be solved by minor political parties, tampon companies and others on the bandwagon blocking questions and smearing decent people as bigots along side those who would wish harm to trans people. No one wants to be seen as as bad as someone who uses slurs and makes threats just because they don’t adhere to someone else’s belief system. The majority of people are pretty decent and treat others decently but won’t accept they’re in the wrong on this anymore that being forced to say the sun goes around the earth.

Yet its OK for them to lable us c**

A subset of our own category

Just say how you’d run the bloody country. Y’know economics and that? It’s not a high school glee club...

Substitute 'women' for 'trans':

Misogynistic behaviour may include (i) attempting directly or through advocacy to remove women's rights, (ii) misrepresenting women, (iii) abuse of women, and (iv) systematically excluding women from discussions about issues that directly affect them.”

How come they can't see it?

This is where they make a mistake - they say something like 'genuine misunderstandings about trans identity may occur, but if you repeatedly make 'errors' this is intentional and transphobic.' I don't 'misunderstand' trans identity. I simply disagree with the theoretical constructs it's built on. I don't believe there is such a thing as 'gender identity', nor do I believe that sex is assigned at birth. And this guide simply doesn't get that at all. They think that any disagreement is 'transphobia' despite the fact there are a million competing theories about gender and gender identity.

So one example of transphobia they provide is is distinguishing trans people by sex - so, saying that trans women aren't really biological women. This is supposedly bigoted because 'it eradicate's the trans persons gender identity in favour of their biology at birth.' But one person's bigotry is another's common sense. It's not false to distinguish trans people in this way - it's just true. They aren't biological women. And furthermore, this distinction is deep within the English legal system and is protected by the Equality Act. So we see the clash here. Any attempt to refer to trans people's biological sex is transphobia, but that is exactly the distinction we need to have to maintain women's rights.

I have spoken with so many trans people on here and in real life who are very confused by the fact I just don't believe in gender identity, don't believe in gendered souls or lady brains, don't believe sex is a social construct. They have to accept that the resistance they are facing is from people who don't have a postmodernist queer theory outlook on life. The only way you are going to convince me that I have an innate gender identity that somehow 'matches' my 'assigned' sex is to actually give me good reasons to believe it. But I'm afraid at the moment it sounds more like a religion that I have no interest in signing up to.

They can see it they don't care.

How they think this will bring them votes when merely filling out the registration form to vote will be a complete non starter let alone getting them down the polling station...

Love this -
“ This includes spreading the idea of a “trans conspiracy” which asserts undue influence over media or government or claiming that cisgender allies support trans rights initiatives out of fear or bribery rather than a genuine belief that trans rights are human rights.”
Coming from the Libdems via Stonewall. Ie a trans organisation exerting influence in a political party.

You cant access services that don't exist due to a lack of valid information about your household...

Requiring trans people to be separate from society, using segregated facilities, or denying them access to facilities which would be required in order for them to fully participate in public life.

Yes, because no one at the party seems to give a fuck about women's facilities and why they're there.

@Swiftnicola

Love this - “ This includes spreading the idea of a “trans conspiracy” which asserts undue influence over media or government or claiming that cisgender allies support trans rights initiatives out of fear or bribery rather than a genuine belief that trans rights are human rights.” Coming from the Libdems via Stonewall. Ie a trans organisation exerting influence in a political party.

Crikey, they truly have lost the plot. Telling you you will be targetted as transphobic if you disagree, but then telling you that if you're concerned about that, your concern is also transphobic.

Similar to some school's advice I read.

Which was you must report all incidents of transphobic bullying, and if you report that you haven't had any, that in itself is transphobic because it means it's being swept under the carpet.

This is the problem when you allow TRAs to write your copy. They assume that the rest of the world already agrees to A, B & C, and you just have to convince them of D.

Nope.

So it is transphobia for a paramedic to pass on the useful bit of info "This is Steve, he's a biological woman" when Steve is rushed into hospital? (Possibly with something like an ectopic pregnancy.) of course if I introduced Steve at work in a meeting saying the same thing it would be entirely unnecessary, but there's a time and a place for everything.

Its also transphobic when not being transphobic and ignoring bioogical sex leads to illness injury or death .

So healthcare is transphobic because for trans people its shit butnits shit because in order to treat properly you have to ve transphobic and treat according to sex.

No one quite knows what they want here...

Maybe now is the time to drop the word ‘liberal’ from their name.

Maybe something starting with fasc... would be more appropriate?

I can only conclude LD really hate women

Unless they’re the sort of women that were born men

It’s also mind boggling stupid. In order to have even a sniff of power they have to persuade people on issues. This isn’t trying to persuade anyone, it starts from the assumption that everyone thinks like Helen Belcher sorry them and that people who don’t think like them are bigots who need educating or I assume locking up if they continue to disagree

NOBODY is assigned male or female at birth.
Their chromosomes are fixed in every cell at conception.

How does the TWAW so want access to all women's spaces
work in mosques and synagogues and temples?

First, I'd like to point out that they have used the Stonewall definition of trans, which includes those of us who feel that our gender does not sit comfortably with our sex. They missed out the definition of gender but I feel safe assuming that they would use Stonewall's definition here as well so I'll c&p it.

"Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth."

Yes, I definitely feel that my 'largely culturally determined' gender does not sit comfortably with my sex. I disagree with parts of that definition but for argument's sake I'll go with it.

Although the Stonewall definition of gender identity forgoes the use of masculine and feminine entirely, making that definition even more confusing:

"A person’s innate sense of their own gender, whether male, female or something else (see non-binary below), which may or may not correspond to the sex assigned at birth."

Are they talking about gender or sex here? They state in their definition of sex that the terms are interchanged. Which is a little odd, because I've always thought that the concept of sex and gender being different and not interchangeable is one of the areas of common ground between GC feminists and TRAs.

So any attempts to misrepresent us is classed as transphobia by the Lib Dems (according to this independent website, at least).

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Any attempt to refer to trans people's biological sex is transphobia, but that is exactly the distinction we need to have to maintain women's rights.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that by stating in this document that referring to a transwoman as a biological man is transphobic, they've basically admitted that there is a conflict here, despite us being told otherwise.

I think this bit is scariest

Advocating the withdrawal or defunding of access to transition-related medical treatment for trans people or advocating or facilitating any kind of therapy that tries to change a person’s gender identity.

Does this mean the LibDems consider it transphobic to campaign against children being given puberty blockers?

Does this mean the LibDems consider it transphobic to suggest to a girl that her feelings are maybe as a result of being is lesbian not trans? Autistic not trans?

Current examples include referring to a trans woman or non-binary person as a “biological man” or a trans man or non-binary person as a “biological woman”, which eradicates the trans person’s gender identity in favour of their biology at birth.

Effectively making it impossible to refer to the sex of a non-binary person in a situation where that might cause extreme harm or death.

They haven't thought this through have they?

Or in a situation that might cause a woman extreme harm or death.

Now we have to debate women's rights without being able to say that Karen White is a biological man or the cyclist is a biological man or the pregnant man is biological woman. FFS.