It's an AIBU but it belongs here - Stonewall

[Doyoumind]

I know some will say this doesn't belong on this board but I believe it is a response to certain GC groups.

Stonewall is trending with #IfirstknewIwaslgbtq, saying that people don't believe it is possible at age 12. The cynic in me says they are going at this angle in response to those who say children can't know they are trans. Of course I believe people can know they are gay by 12. I can even accept people know they are trans by 12. Being gay at 12 may have a huge impact on you socially but being trans at 12 and starting on a medical pathway is something entirely different and it is dishonest to conflate the two.

Gladysthesphinx

I'm very naive - this group supported by Mermaids and Stonewall - what do they mean by telling critics to "suck their mums"? My first thought was that it was a seriously gross under-age incestous oral sex reference, but surely even Mermaids would not sink so low as to admit to supporting that, in public at least?
Can anyone enlighten me?

Your first thought was probably correct. There was a thread about this phrase a year ago: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3666425--Suck-your-mum?

It's v late but I'm wondering if this is something the could be reported to CEOP?

Urgh. I joined an online course today and out of about ten intros two claimed to have trans children (one 10yo). I’m sitting on my hands lest I use the phrase vegan cat. I have no idea if I can contain myself in group discussion for fifteen weeks.
Allison is a tour de force and I bloody hope these numpties have the capacity to grasp safeguarding concerns. Whatever the fuck happened to ethics committees? Have they been cancelled?
I’m a district commissioner for girl guides and an adult trainer. I am utterly militant about age group segregation for very real reasons. There has to be a bloody good reason why I mix teen groups, and we have a hard stop at 18. At that point if you want to volunteer with youth we require screening and police checks.
And sure - girls in my 12-14yo group do occasionally come out. It’s a safe space and it’s no big deal. It’s not like we don’t have lesbian leaders.
An entire mixed youth/ adult group solely based on sexuality? Collecting data from children? That’s fucking creepy.

OMG that form! The woman who set the organisation up has zero understanding of children's safety online.

Intersex as a sexual identity And also what is a non-Black POC person?

@JKRowlingIsMyQueen

You cannot know you are trans at age 12 because being trans is not a thing. You are the sex you are and it just is what it is.

There are clearly children of 12 who suffer from gender dysphoria, regardless of whether it is possible to change sex.

Being trans is clearly ‘a thing’.

Online safety is one of the hardest aspects to reinforce through teaching in school. You can cover it every year from Nursery upwards and children always give the right answers in class but being in their bedroom on their phone is a completely different matter.

That form could have been taken straight from an exercise highlighting what sort of information you shouldn't give out to strangers online. Imagine though if an LGBT child stumbles across it from a retweet on Stonewall/Mermaids - that's enough of an endorsement in their eyes to no doubt consider it legit.

Why can't those lobby groups do some fucking safeguarding training - everyone else working anywhere near children does. Honestly it's like they think they're somehow exempt or above it.

You cannot know you are trans at age 12 because being trans is not a thing. You are the sex you are and it just is what it is

Gender dysphoria and trans is a thing. There's always been a tiny percentage of people that have struggled with this. I'm not including the people who don't want to change anything about themselves yet claim the title of woman in that. But It doesn't help young people with those feelings by denying them. It makes it worse.

Background as a youth worker and doesnt have the first understanding of how to keep children safe

https://www.vogue.co.uk/miss-vogue/article/tanya-compas-interview

Why can't those lobby groups do some fucking safeguarding training - everyone else working anywhere near children does. Honestly it's like they think they're somehow exempt or above it

Seems to me that the goals of some of these groups is to breakdown safeguarding, not uphold it. Imo.

The charity commission recently issued a regulatory alert about safeguarding, because a large charity (RNIB) hadn't properly reviewed or followed its own safeguarding policy & procedures.

Just wondering if it may be worth raising a concern with them.

Of course being trans "is a thing"
What it isn't is a reason to take safeguarding protections away from a child. It's unbelievable the amount of times they (Stonewall, Mermaids etc) attempt this.

Yep, they have taken Allison Bailey's tweet and totally twisted it to make a 'look how bigoted these people are' hashtag.

Even Owen Jones has retweeted it, presumably without looking into it. Twat.

I bet Owen Jones doesn't realise he is effectively endorsing an organisation which invited 12 year olds, along with adults, to privately DM them in return for payment and then told people who had concerns about this to 'suck your mum'.

This is a pretty straightforward safeguarding issue
and
I'm wondering if this is something the could be reported to CEOP (Child Exploitation and Online Protection command)?

I'm curious what the law is and what can be done.

Out of interest...

• 1) has anyone here reported this to anyone?

• 2) has anyone reported it to the CEOP? - looking at it I'm not sure if it's the right avenue or not www.ceop.police.uk/safety-centre/

• 3) does anyone know if this is illegal?

• 4) if it's not illegal, then this feels like a campaign / petition that needs to happen. . . or is there a petition already?

• 5) what are your thoughts on a campaign to stop govt funded organisations retweeting (endorsing) messages to children, by persons unknown, telling them to share private information and photos ?

Owen Jones has rted. Good. The more people that hear about this the better- I haven't reported it because I don't actually know to whom that would go. There's not much info on the group, don't know if they're a registered charity or anything?

@ArabellaScott

Owen Jones has rted. Good. The more people that hear about this the better- I haven't reported it because I don't actually know to whom that would go. There's not much info on the group, don't know if they're a registered charity or anything?

They're applying to the charity commission according to their crowdfunded but not sure if they've got registration yet. One would hope the CC would take rather a dim view of an organisation asking children to contact them privately

I bet Owen Jones doesn't realise he is effectively endorsing an organisation which invited 12 year olds, along with adults, to privately DM them in return for payment and then told people who had concerns about this to 'suck your mum'

They know now. They know more than enough.

We really need to stop giving these people the benefit of the doubt all the time. In fact the more we try and warn them the more they double down and associate with even more of thse groups just to prove a point

This?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/supervision-of-activity-with-children

[quote ArabellaScott]This?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/supervision-of-activity-with-children[/quote]
interesting link though it's for Schools, colleges and children's services. ... started reading 'The National action plan to tackle child abuse linked to faith or belief'

That form could have been taken straight from an exercise highlighting what sort of information you shouldn't give out to strangers online. Imagine though if an LGBT child stumbles across it from a retweet on Stonewall/Mermaids - that's enough of an endorsement in their eyes to no doubt consider it legit.

Why can't those lobby groups do some fucking safeguarding training - everyone else working anywhere near children does. Honestly it's like they think they're somehow exempt or above it.

This.

Maybe we should report this survey to the NSPCC. Oh, wait...

Seriously, though, is there anyone we could report this to?

We need to start letting the charity commission know, every single time these groups break safeguarding rules.

They're not registered as a charity, so the Charity Commission is out.

It looks like they're not registered as anything, although they claim to be in the process of applying fro a CIC. (They've been claiming this since at least June - how long does it take?).

They had a company with the same name but it was dissolved.

twitter.com/millar_marion/status/1303415076569964544