It's an AIBU but it belongs here - Stonewall

[Doyoumind]

I know some will say this doesn't belong on this board but I believe it is a response to certain GC groups.

Stonewall is trending with #IfirstknewIwaslgbtq, saying that people don't believe it is possible at age 12. The cynic in me says they are going at this angle in response to those who say children can't know they are trans. Of course I believe people can know they are gay by 12. I can even accept people know they are trans by 12. Being gay at 12 may have a huge impact on you socially but being trans at 12 and starting on a medical pathway is something entirely different and it is dishonest to conflate the two.

[ArabellaScott]

I don't know anything about law, but I expect it's a data protection minefield, too: www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed1436

[ArabellaScott]

How will this personal, sensitive information be stored? Secured? Will it be shared? The GDPR is relevant, surely?

[ArabellaScott]

As far as I can tell, you can't hold or process a child's data without parental consent?

gdpr-info.eu/art-8-gdpr/

[PastMyBestBeforeDate]

Do you think it's just about Allison or is the Stonewall tweet partly about discrediting the court action going on?

[ArabellaScott]

This stuff is bad enough for adults, let alone children, let alone sensitive personal information of children.

I know relatively nothign about the subject but I can see that it needs to be handled carefully. I would expect a youth group or youth worker to have at least a cursory understanding of the issues involved.

[ArabellaScott]

Sorry, to clarify, by 'bad enough' I mean 'difficult enough to do correctly'. When they brought in the GDPR everyone panicked about keeping names and phone numbers of adult customers.

[FindTheTruth]

According to The information commissioners office (ICO), in their Guide to the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and Children:

Where the child is below the age of 16 years, such processing shall be lawful only if and to the extent that consent is given or authorised by the holder of parental responsibility over the child.

ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/children-and-the-gdpr/

[LizzieSiddal]

Where the child is below the age of 16 years, such processing shall be lawful only if and to the extent that consent is given or authorised by the holder of parental responsibility over the child.

Thank you FindTheTruth. We need to point this out to Stonewall then. Makes me so angry- here we are, trying to make massive organisations, keep to the Law of the land!

[FindTheTruth]

[quote ArabellaScott]As far as I can tell, you can't hold or process a child's data without parental consent?

gdpr-info.eu/art-8-gdpr/[/quote]
Yes. for a child under 16 they can't do it without parental responsibility consent

[ArabellaScott]

Okay, thanks.

So this group, posting out binders to children, was in breach?

'MORF is based at the Manchester headquarters of the LGBT Foundation which has received close to £1.2 million from the Department of Health and a £500,000 grant from The Big Lottery Fund.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6450485/Trans-activists-send-free-breast-binders-13-year-olds.html

[FindTheTruth]

So this group, posting out binders to children, was in breach?

'MORF

@ArabellaScott
Yes if they held data without parental consent. Looking at the MORF site just now it says You CANNOT order a binder if you are under 18

[ArabellaScott]

Ah, and I see they have changed their name, too.

[doublehalo]

[quote ArabellaScott]Okay, thanks.

So this group, posting out binders to children, was in breach?

'MORF is based at the Manchester headquarters of the LGBT Foundation which has received close to £1.2 million from the Department of Health and a £500,000 grant from The Big Lottery Fund.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6450485/Trans-activists-send-free-breast-binders-13-year-olds.html[/quote]
In the transcript of the phone conversation the 'child' is also told they can come in in person and try the binders on!

Fucking hell. To a supposed 13yr old girl. This shit needs to be shut down asap,

[MillyMollyFarmer]

So they should be reported to...??? Police? Someone should report to the appropriate place then

[FloralBunting]

I noticed Stonewall retweeted a trans man saying "I came out as ‘lesbian’ at 12 and trans at 15. I then started T at 16 and had top surgery at 17. To claim children cannot understand themselves is unbelievably damaging. I am so grateful I transitioned when I did."

No irony detected in Stonewall promoting a person of the female sex putting their sexual orientation in scare quotes and cheerfully exclaiming that they began cross sex hormones at 16, a year after deciding they were actually not a girl, and a year later had a mastectomy.

Stonewall is lesbophobic to the very core and they don't even see the horror in promoting cosmetic mastectomy on teenagers. I just can't...

[ArabellaScott]

The Information Commisioners' office?

I think this is 'special category data'

ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/lawful-basis-for-processing/special-category-data/

[Kit19]

Childrens commissioner?

www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/

an organisation that is not any form of legal entity is on pretty slippery territory collecting any data let alone this type

[FindTheTruth]

@ArabellaScott - you're right!

The GDPR defines special category data as:

personal data revealing racial or ethnic origin;
personal data revealing political opinions;
personal data revealing religious or philosophical beliefs;
personal data revealing trade union membership;
genetic data;
biometric data (where used for identification purposes);
data concerning health;
data concerning a person’s sex life
data concerning a person’s sexual orientation.

[ArabellaScott]

So, they need an impact assessment, and an 'appropriate policy document'.

'It’s not just that this type of information might be seen as more sensitive or ‘private’. The recitals to the GDPR explain that these types of personal data merit specific protection. This is because use of this data could create significant risks to the individual’s fundamental rights and freedoms. For example, the various categories are closely linked with:

freedom of thought, conscience and religion;
freedom of expression;
freedom of assembly and association;
the right to bodily integrity;
the right to respect for private and family life; or
freedom from discrimination.

The presumption is that this type of data needs to be treated with greater care because collecting and using it is more likely to interfere with these fundamental rights or open someone up to discrimination. This is part of the risk-based approach of the GDPR.'

[FindTheTruth]

I've emailed the ICO

Dear information commissioner

An organisation called Exist Loudly UK are asking 12 year old children to direct message them on Twitter with their age, ethnicity, sexuality, gender & location. They tweeted at 11:34am 8 September 2020. This is the link twitter.com/ExistLoudlyUK/status/1303280636229230592

I understand that this in breach of breach of the GDPR and PECR and that you have the powers to take action.

Regards

[ArabellaScott]

Well done. Hope you get a response.

[Thingybob]

The person behind this proposed organization (Exist Loudly) is tweeting that she is

"ready to fight whoever, legally, verbally and physically. I don't care at this point"

FGS, has she got a self destruct button? I don't doubt her passion or her intentions but it's not enough to just 'exist loudly'. There are times when everyone has to also shut up and listen, particularly when those she is shouting down/threatening are so much more educated and experienced than she is.

[MillyMollyFarmer]

Thank you. Do only 1 of us need to or is it better for more to do it?

[yourhairiswinterfire]

@Thingybob

The person behind this proposed organization (Exist Loudly) is tweeting that she is

"ready to fight whoever, legally, verbally and physically. I don't care at this point"

FGS, has she got a self destruct button? I don't doubt her passion or her intentions but it's not enough to just 'exist loudly'. There are times when everyone has to also shut up and listen, particularly when those she is shouting down/threatening are so much more educated and experienced than she is.

It's strange that this is their reaction to someone raising a safeguarding concern. Surely you'd be at pains to assure everyone that you were above board, rather than stropping, insulting people, and telling people to suck their mothers?

It's a childish, unprofessional approach. Really fucking bizarre reaction.

[ArabellaScott]

She does't seem to understand that this isn't something to take personally. This is about safeguarding children, it's not rocket science, and people aren't 'fighting' her, they're just trying to ensure children aren't left open to exploitation. Good intentions don't really cut it.