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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harry’s doing bad day for S organisation again...

164 replies

GiantKitten · 05/09/2020 16:33

Says it’s tomorrow

m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100038073817732&lst=693415542%3A100038073817732%3A1599319941

OP posts:
Winesalot · 06/09/2020 10:58

Imagine if it came out that the smoking lobby was so ingrained in setting policy leading to law enforcement about vaping and hiding the science around the health risks associated with vaping.

Maybe not the best analogy but best I can think of.

Datun · 06/09/2020 11:03

The CPS have already had to withdraw their schools advice. They have already been giving the wrong guidance.

Stonewall is a political lobby group. The CPS should be absolutely impartial and not be taking advice from a lobby group - which they then implement in schools and subsequently have to withdraw on the basis that it's illegal.

Its regulatory capture at the highest level. And needs challenging.

2fallsagain · 06/09/2020 11:09

@AlsoNotAGirl

What search terms on the crowdjustice site bring up this case?
all SSAUK news is on the Twitter thread or on our website: twitter.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1302535434287943680?s=20
2fallsagain · 06/09/2020 11:11

@UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea

Again just to check, the judicial review needs to work first? What are the odds? How long will it take? And do they still need to raise money through a crowd funder?
Yes we have a long way to go get but this case has taken months to build and is very strong. So yes, it does still need funding. All info on the Safe Schools Twitter thread or our website.
FannyCann · 06/09/2020 11:16

*Imagine if it came out that the smoking lobby was so ingrained in setting policy leading to law enforcement about vaping and hiding the science around the health risks associated with vaping.

Maybe not the best analogy but best I can think of.*

Oh I don't know. The safety/health benefits of choosing vaping instead of cigarettes are overstated in my view and it will be some time before the risks can be properly assessed. Meanwhile sales are booming.

SoManyActivities · 06/09/2020 11:20

Is this a similar judicial review to the one that Anne Sinnot has applied for? I am not very good at the legal side of things with all of this?

A teenage girl though doing this though, wow. Is she annoymous because she has chosen to be to avoid abuse, or because she is under 18? What an amazing girl!

Thank you so much for all you do @2fallsagain

Spero · 06/09/2020 11:21

@UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea

I'm so sorry to be thick but can someone explain why this is brilliant news?
It's already been said but bears repeating.

For over five years now, unlawful advice has been pushed to ALL major organisations and institutions, including schools, hospitals, and the CPS - who, don't forget are the CROWN PROSECUTION SERVICE, they decide if you get charged or not with a hate crime.

The safety of women and girls has been directly jeopardised and those women and girls who tried to speak up have been threatened, lost their jobs, lost their platforms, lost their voice.

this is a crucial legal action. the Government cannot sit on the fence while the CPS is challenged about its own unlawful behaviour. Win or lose this will provoke debate and concern about how far the tentacles of Stonewall were allowed to intrude.

I am very concerned to hear that journalists couldn't seem to grasp this. This is about our essential and fundamental freedoms; it is about the rule of law. There is really nothing more important, in my view. Without the rule of law we have nothing.

Spero · 06/09/2020 11:23

@SoManyActivities

Is this a similar judicial review to the one that Anne Sinnot has applied for? I am not very good at the legal side of things with all of this?

A teenage girl though doing this though, wow. Is she annoymous because she has chosen to be to avoid abuse, or because she is under 18? What an amazing girl!

Thank you so much for all you do @2fallsagain

Ann Sinnot is challenged the Equality and Human Rights Commission who were set up to have one job - promote and protect human rights as set out in the Equality Act.

What instead they did, with ex Stonewall chief at the helm, was issue incorrect and unlawful advice that ignored women's rights to single sex spaces. They then withdrew that advice but refused to issue correct advice.

They are not doing their job. Worse than that, they are actively undermining community cohesion and the respect we should all feel for one another by unlawfully promoting one minority characteristic above all others - particularly above women.

Jeeeez · 06/09/2020 11:25

Woah....well that was definitely worth waiting for!!

Thank you 2falls and Miss A for your sterling work.

yourhairiswinterfire · 06/09/2020 11:26

Wow. Get fucked Stonewall!

God bless that young teenager. (Can't believe it's taken a teenager to do this, though!)

Does this mean SW's funding and influence will take a massive hit when it all comes out? 🤞

ToriaPumpkin · 06/09/2020 11:31

Definitely worth the wait! Thank you 2falls and everyone else with the bravery and strength to be taking these actions. I hope the amazing young woman taking this action knows how many people are behind her.

Winesalot · 06/09/2020 11:34

I agree FannyCann. I think that there will be a new smoking scandal in a decade or so.

BettyFilous · 06/09/2020 11:52

Fantastic news. I have done some digging.

Lordamighty · 06/09/2020 11:59

Digging done, this can’t come soon enough.

mariwhee · 06/09/2020 12:33

Excellent news Gin

TheFleegleHasLanded · 06/09/2020 12:36

Background on the CPS hate crime guidance and Miss A (seeing as access to the Telegraph is free today)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/30/cpspulls-hate-crime-guidance-schools-14-year-old-girl-mounted/

FloralBunting · 06/09/2020 12:51

This has happened because the CPS withdrew the erroneous anti-bullying guidance, pending review, but the guidance has clearly been influenced by Stonewall's wrong advice.

As the CPS are still signed up to the Stonewall scheme that insists Stonewall's policies are embedded in their internal and external work, they can certainly be seen to be biased and any review of the withdrawn guidance also. This is not allowed for a public body.

If this can be shown with the CPS, there are around 60 other government bodies currently in the scheme.

Watch. The. Dominoes. Fall.

SoManyActivities · 06/09/2020 12:56

She is only 14?! Shock

boatyardblues · 06/09/2020 13:04

@SoManyActivities

She is only 14?! Shock
Yep. A very brave young woman (child).
TheChampagneGalop · 06/09/2020 13:09

She has got...

Harry’s doing bad day for S organisation again...
GiantKitten · 06/09/2020 13:17

[quote TheFleegleHasLanded]Background on the CPS hate crime guidance and Miss A (seeing as access to the Telegraph is free today)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/30/cpspulls-hate-crime-guidance-schools-14-year-old-girl-mounted/[/quote]
Thanks for that, @TheFleegleHasLanded Smile

OP posts:
yourhairiswinterfire · 06/09/2020 13:19

How embarrassing for them, being taken down by a 14 year old.

I just read this bit on the fund raiser page:

The guidance also puts forward another example of a potential hate crime in its lesson plans. A worksheet pictures a much older adult transwoman, (male who identifies as a woman), alongside a group of girls in the women’s toilets. The sheet later goes on to describe the transwoman crying because the girls comment to each other ‘that’s a man. Why is he in here?’ The transwoman then goes into the men's toilets where men bang on the door and shout insults.

Putting it in girls heads that they need to #bekind and act as a shield for men. Pure emotional manipulation.

I wonder how much effort Stonewall have made to get men to work on their attitudes and behaviour, to be more accepting of transwomen (who belong to the male sex class) in their spaces? Probably about as much effort as they've put into condemning the bullying of lesbians by men from their so called ''community''.

MichelleofzeResistance · 06/09/2020 13:44

As Wines says: fundamental issues here about:

a) how civil servants and whole organisations built on the premise of being impartial and representing the whole population, went against their own policies and practice, and were sucked into being a mouthpiece for a political lobby group with very partisan interests. See the TRA Lobby's own comments about the quiet cups of tea with people in back rooms achieving so much.

Why were no whistles blown? Why did no one in those back room cosy meetings apparently pause to think, never mind point out the conflict of interest with their policies and public duty of impartiality?

#scandal number 1. A public inquiry needed, and heads should roll over this alone.

b) Those public servants, public departments and whole organisations (with legal teams) either unknowingly or quite intentionally reinterpreted, reframed and downright misquoted the law, set by parliament, to fit the partisan interests of the political lobby group.

This reframing created guidance that actively discriminated and went against the interests of groups of people protected under actual law.

Questions arise again: why did public bodies trained in equality, safeguarding, the culture of impartiality and public duty, not question this, whistle blow, and which is it: did they miss the reframing of the law? Which is one massive problem. Or did they actively collude with a political lobby group to blur and distort the law in the lobby's group's interest?

The TRA lobby's own comments have mentioned intentional plans to change practice to what they wanted so that the law would 'catch up' when the way they wanted things to be was pretty much made normal. And democracy and public opinion would have the least chance of getting in the way.

#Massive Scandal no 2. Public inquiry needed and lots of heads should roll, since if it is acceptable that whatever law is created, what actually happens in the country is controlled by whatever political lobby group is in bed with public servants/organisation - MPs, Parliament, HoC, House of Lords, all a very expensive waste of time and pointless to continue the existence of, and there's the end of electorate representation and democracy.

Anonymous women on this forum knew all this stuff years ago - further questions arise about why no one else was paying attention when they were being paid to do so?

Massive. Absolutely massive mess.

Spero this is - well, it's bloody tragic it's had to be done, but it's a relief to see it being dragged into the open where elected representatives will have no option but to face it. And at this point I owe you so many drinks you will need to bring a wheelbarrow I can take you home in.

Aesopfable · 06/09/2020 14:12

@yourhairiswinterfire

How embarrassing for them, being taken down by a 14 year old.

I just read this bit on the fund raiser page:

The guidance also puts forward another example of a potential hate crime in its lesson plans. A worksheet pictures a much older adult transwoman, (male who identifies as a woman), alongside a group of girls in the women’s toilets. The sheet later goes on to describe the transwoman crying because the girls comment to each other ‘that’s a man. Why is he in here?’ The transwoman then goes into the men's toilets where men bang on the door and shout insults.

Putting it in girls heads that they need to #bekind and act as a shield for men. Pure emotional manipulation.

I wonder how much effort Stonewall have made to get men to work on their attitudes and behaviour, to be more accepting of transwomen (who belong to the male sex class) in their spaces? Probably about as much effort as they've put into condemning the bullying of lesbians by men from their so called ''community''.

I think this example would be great for a lesson on how coercion works, how women are expected to set aside their boundaries to please men and how they are held accountable to the behaviour of men over whom they have no control. A fine example of how the patriarchy works to the harm of women.
MrsJamin · 06/09/2020 14:43

Annoying how the TRAs are focusing on the age of the young woman, insinuating that she is being groomed to say this stuff. As if! This is how toxic this situation has got, that she had to resort to legal action to prevent children from having to accept males in her spaces.