Father v mothers in the workplace

[Eledamorena]

Yesterday I called my husband at work. We sometimes exchange texts during the day but I never call as obviously he may be busy, but he can reply to a text whenever he has the time.

I'm currently on maternity leave and my toddler is off school, sick. We live in SE Asia so any problems at home can become complicated.

He ignored the call and when I called again, he hung up. I messaged to say I just needed 2 minutes. He wouldn't take the call.

He said later that he was in a meeting with his boss and eventually admitted that he thinks it would look bad for him to take a personal call while at work. The meeting was a normal weekly catch-up, nothing critical. He gets on with his boss (boss is male and has children).

I was really annoyed because I never call at work so surely he should have assumed it was important? When I'm at work, I would be expected to take a call and then deal with whatever home-related problem there might be (childcare issue or sick child needing to be picked up or go to hospital or whatever). If I am judged by my boss for this, I have to take it on the chin.

Am I overthinking this? (Possibly, tired and hormonal!!)

I tried to explain to my husband that if he cannot say to his boss, 'Sorry, my son is sick today and my wife never calls me at work so I should take this, I'll just be a moment' then he either works for a misogynist twat or he thinks it's just not his problem?

It made me quite irrationally annoyed and I told him that women in the workplace picking this stuff up while men don't is one of the reasons there is no workplace equality. It doesn't help that in this part of the world, wives really do pick up the bulk of all domestic work and problems even if they work full time, and expat men in particular often enjoy the high life while their wives do everything else.

Not sure what I'm hoping to achieve with this post... perhaps reassurance that I'm not going insane thinking it's unfair that he feels able to ignore a potential problem at home while I would never be able to do so when I'm at work?

(I'm not, however arguing that expecting people to keep their phones off in meeting except in exceptional circumstances is too unfriendly, just that it isn't only a matter of applying unfriendly practices evenly).

@NiceGerbil I agree with everything you're posting!

@HarperLight I'm embarrassed to admit we don't have any plan in place but we will do now!! And it will include colleagues and neighbours to cover all bases.

It's work
Unless it is an emergency leave him to get back to you and keep it professional
No workplace employers going to think unless urgent do it in your own time attitude
Sorry I'm a working mum unless urgent people know I may not respond straight away
Work life balance As well.
Give the guy a break he's earning your family a income and we are all lucky to be employed.
"What it looks like" is irrelevant in a workplace more how professional the employee is and then the nagging wife

I am a single parent and I work in a mainly male department. If the school calls me when I am in the middle of a meeting, I have to pick up. I don’t work in a life or death job, so stepping outside the room for a couple of minutes will not harm anyone.

I totally agree that there will be no equality until society and workplaces realise that some people have childcare responsibilities and this does not mean that they make a lesser contribution to the workplace. The idea that we are all unencumbered and must act as such is detrimental to people who have childcare responsibilities.

Now maybe there is a difference because my colleagues know I am a single parent and there is no-one else to pick up the school calls, in an emergency I will be the first port of call. But if a woman is at home juggling a baby and toddler and there is an emergency, then what is exactly so important in a meeting that two minutes cannot be taken by her husband to pick up a call?

The economy relies on someone somewhere, usually female, picking up the domestic and childcare roles, often unpaid, so that people can be productive in the labour market. Until that burden is shared equally between the sexes, and/or female caring roles are valued, there will be no genuine equality.

But if a woman is at home juggling a baby and toddler and there is an emergency, then what is exactly so important in a meeting that two minutes cannot be taken by her husband to pick up a call?

Equally, what is so urgent that a call to someone (normally miles away) will actually get you timely help that couldn’t wait 30+ minutes?

Mobiles have given us this idea that we are indispensable, but really other people can step in. It’s much nicer if you can contact a working parent immediately, but life saving medical care can and should be given whether they are there or not. It’s much nicer if kids are not left waiting at school or with a train station guard for an extra 30 minutes, but it’s not actually going to make a huge difference to their day.

In many ways being constantly available has made parenting much worse for mothers - constant demands on their time that could actually wait.

I don’t know - I once got a call from the school to tell me my daughter had not turned up at her next class, and did I know where she was? No, I did not as I expected her to be in school. As it turned out, she was in school and had been registered wrongly, so on one hand, yes, the school could have physically checked and no, if she had been missing then the 30 minutes could have made a difference (or an hour in this case as that was how long my commitment still had to go).

@overacupofcoffee I'm not sure I entirely follow your post. I'm also (usually) a working mum. I don't know if a call is urgent until I answer it but I assume neither school nor nanny would call during work hours unless it was very important. I don't think I've ever actually phoned my husband during the working day before. I wouldn't see myself as a nagging wife at all, not sure if you were suggesting that or making a general point. And for the record, I also 'earn my family an income' and we live in one of the least-affected countries in the world if you're referring to covid.

@KatySun thanks for your comments. You sum up how I feel. I totally agree that we (or at least I, personally) cannot just pretend I have no responsibilities outside of work, and that in many cases men seem able to do this. Your example is a good one - it wasn't an emergency at all in the end but if it had been, my word you would have felt awful if you hadn't been contactable.

You quitely slip out

Not possible, as others have said. Everyone is important in meetings. If someone leaves everyone has to sit and wait for them to return. Incredibly rude.

The whole attitude that employees are unavailable in emergencies essentially perpetuates the patriarchal system of one parent taking on 90% of the mental load connected with children and the other being dreadfully important and not to be bothered. Yes, sometimes the woman is the dreadfully important one and the man the mental load carrier, but that's rare in reality and the answer is for both parents to be responsible for their children in emergencies, not some Thatcherite model of feminism implying women need to "man up" and adopt the nasty aspects of the patriarchal system as their own.

Most big meetings are 80% talking shops with people boosting their own egos by making sure they talk a lot, saying things which either everyone knows or most people don't need to know. Meetings waste vast amounts of time, 80% of time spent in meetings generally isn't crucial at all.

Most big meetings are 80% talking shops with people boosting their own egos by making sure they talk a lot, saying things which either everyone knows or most people don't need to know. Meetings waste vast amounts of time, 80% of time spent in meetings generally isn't crucial at all.

That's absolute garbage in my experience, sorry.

@eurochick

Hmm. I wouldn't answer a call from my husband if I was in a meeting with my boss. I would call back once the meeting finished though.

This! I have rejected calls from my husband if I've been in a meeting/on a call.

Until -agree :)

DH is the one of us down as the first emergency contact for school - because in normal times, he can get back to there much faster than I can from where we are during the normal working day.

Doesn't stop the school still ringing me first though!

His work are fine with family taking priority - his boss is really really hot on the kids coming first for all his staff.

Schools normally ring the woman first, no matter if priority has been noted to be the contact the father first.

@deydododatdodontdeydo

Most big meetings are 80% talking shops with people boosting their own egos by making sure they talk a lot, saying things which either everyone knows or most people don't need to know. Meetings waste vast amounts of time, 80% of time spent in meetings generally isn't crucial at all.

That's absolute garbage in my experience, sorry.

Agreed. As was most the post you quoted

@Chairbear

Schools normally ring the woman first, no matter if priority has been noted to be the contact the father first.

Really ? You have no way whatsoever of proving that.

I’m the first to be cross about fathers vs mothers at work. But I think you were unreasonable.

I never take calls in work meetings and nor does DH. I usually don’t even have my personal phone with me. If something is urgent people can text or leave a voicemail - check phoneS regularly.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme I don't know if you're right about the 80% but a lot of meetings could be condensed right down.
I notice on here how the "too important for childcare responsibilities" goes with the person's sex not their job. As a teacher I have often read of women doing more emergency childcare as their job is family friendly. A different poster and this time the husband is the teacher - oh they can never take time of work because of the nature of their job. It's maddening.

DH and I both work FT, I am the breadwinner but he is slowly progressing up his ladder. I have always done most of the planning, drop offs and pickups, cooking etc... I’ve never given it much thought tbh, I am a perfectionist and micromanager tbh! My work is more flexible than his and I wouldn’t expect him to pick up during a meeting which is the point of this thread.

However, what I have found since both WFH is that DH’s colleagues and employers assume that he is the breadwinner and that his job takes precedence over mine. I have heard my husband say he can’t make a specific meeting time due to childcare to be asked why I can’t do it? When DH says I am in a meeting they joke about him being a modern man. This is not a one off with one colleague, it a regular occurrence and not just his male colleagues that do it.

Pisses me off no end.

What this is really showing up is a big difference in workplace cultures etc.

It's interesting.

I always got called first when dh was main contact at primary. I also said he should get all the emails etc etc they did for a year then randomly switched it all back to me again.

Nosleeptilteenagers you’re labelling yourself, when it sounds like you do more than your fair share and your DH less. Not surprising his work assume that given your current setup.

Few men who are the higher earner do more parenting in the working week than their partner.

Schools normally ring the woman first, no matter if priority has been noted to be the contact the father first.
Happened to me. Put dhs down as first contact, said in our chats he will be the contact. They always phoned me first, I’d ignore it half the time. Of course no way of proving it as a general rule but we know enough similar stories!

Schools normally ring the woman first, no matter if priority has been noted to be the contact the father first

I expect this is different for different schools but the social expectation that the mother is responsible is pretty strong so not a surprise that this would happen at some schools.

My experience with school was that they would only ring me (I was listed first) and never move on to anyone else on our list of contacts. So my husband was never called even when they couldn’t get through to me. They would call me if I didn’t pick up they left a message and then try and call me back half an hour later rather than move on to try my husband.

@Chairbear

Schools normally ring the woman first, no matter if priority has been noted to be the contact the father first.

Yes I had this problem, at nursery and in reception I was the first contact (Dad) and my cousin (female) was the second contact. There was also a note on SIMS saying that she was only to be contacted if I didn’t answer the phone. Every single time both nursery or school had to call they phoned her first every single time, if she didn’t answer they didn’t phone me, this once at nursery meant despite my son throwing up all day I wasn’t informed until pick up, I changed nursery after that. She moved away in January so I removed her from the contact list at a pick up, the receptionist asked who they should phone in an emergency erm, I don’t know, maybe me, his dad as it clearly says on SIMS.

Attached is this years form to update contact details, mother is put at the top of the form despite father coming first alphabetically. Last year it was parent/guardian and a section to state the persons relationship to the child.

That’s horrendous, SimonJT