Father v mothers in the workplace

[Eledamorena]

Yesterday I called my husband at work. We sometimes exchange texts during the day but I never call as obviously he may be busy, but he can reply to a text whenever he has the time.

I'm currently on maternity leave and my toddler is off school, sick. We live in SE Asia so any problems at home can become complicated.

He ignored the call and when I called again, he hung up. I messaged to say I just needed 2 minutes. He wouldn't take the call.

He said later that he was in a meeting with his boss and eventually admitted that he thinks it would look bad for him to take a personal call while at work. The meeting was a normal weekly catch-up, nothing critical. He gets on with his boss (boss is male and has children).

I was really annoyed because I never call at work so surely he should have assumed it was important? When I'm at work, I would be expected to take a call and then deal with whatever home-related problem there might be (childcare issue or sick child needing to be picked up or go to hospital or whatever). If I am judged by my boss for this, I have to take it on the chin.

Am I overthinking this? (Possibly, tired and hormonal!!)

I tried to explain to my husband that if he cannot say to his boss, 'Sorry, my son is sick today and my wife never calls me at work so I should take this, I'll just be a moment' then he either works for a misogynist twat or he thinks it's just not his problem?

It made me quite irrationally annoyed and I told him that women in the workplace picking this stuff up while men don't is one of the reasons there is no workplace equality. It doesn't help that in this part of the world, wives really do pick up the bulk of all domestic work and problems even if they work full time, and expat men in particular often enjoy the high life while their wives do everything else.

Not sure what I'm hoping to achieve with this post... perhaps reassurance that I'm not going insane thinking it's unfair that he feels able to ignore a potential problem at home while I would never be able to do so when I'm at work?

Professional office based jobs (as a consultant I’ve worked at a lot of clients so not just mine) phones are normal, and being available via switchboard is something from old movies. They couldn’t tell a relative if you were in today or on site or which building or which country you are in.

I would text back quickly in meeting call you after and call back ASAP. The learning point here is if you go back to work op, your dp acknowledges that taking personal calls is not a great look. Ergo he takes them all while you hit your stride as women returning after time off are very easily judged for having family distractions and the you took a break for your family so he will owe you some prioritisation to get back into it. I saved childcare’s number and ignored their calls at least half the time when I went back to work, knowing theyd call dh. (I texted him immediately - childcare call is yours let me know what’s up)

He should have called you back when he'd finished the meeting.
Why are you the one who sorts things out and takes calls, I'd be pissed off if I was your boss, your child/ren have 2 parents.
This is why women struggle to keep their jobs, gain promotion, etc.

@Devlesko that's what I mean... I would sort things out because someone has to, and the point I'm making is that this more often falls to women. I'm sure there are many families where this is not the case, but when we both work it would generally be me who would be contacted first in an emergency and it would be me who felt obliged to deal with it. I agree entirely that this is a factor in why women may not progress as much at work etc. Just not sure of a realistic solution, unless men take a fair share of dealing with domestic situations when necessary, even if this impacts their work. I think men need to actively do this and bosses need to see it in action, and realise that any parent (male or female) could very occasionally have to deal with whatever situation at home.

@timeisnotaline I like your comments about prioritising my time at work for a period upon my return. You're absolutely right that women can be judged for having to miss work for child-related reasons.

Professional office based jobs (as a consultant I’ve worked at a lot of clients so not just mine) phones are normal

Well in my experience professional office based jobs phones are absolutely not normal. Clients might take personal calls during meetings but employees? Definitely not. It's extremely unprofessional behaviour.

deydododatdodontdeydo

I was saying how it is in my job. I know that I'm lucky to be in the industry i am and to have worked in such flexible workplaces.

Obviously it's not the same for everyone!

Well in my experience professional office based jobs phones are absolutely not normal. Clients might take personal calls during meetings but employees? Definitely not. It's extremely unprofessional behaviour.
But it’s for work as well - people have your work number and you have your email on your phone and are running around depts / offices/ firms etc so phone is the one guarantee of reaching you.i don’t mean you take a personal call during a meeting (although sometimes you do as we are all human), but that phones are the way to reach someone. Unless you are on a trading floor where they are banned or very senior where your pa fields everyone. (I’d expect my husbands pa if he had one to prioritise my calls!)

@timeisnotaline

Well in my experience professional office based jobs phones are absolutely not normal. Clients might take personal calls during meetings but employees? Definitely not. It's extremely unprofessional behaviour. But it’s for work as well - people have your work number and you have your email on your phone and are running around depts / offices/ firms etc so phone is the one guarantee of reaching you.i don’t mean you take a personal call during a meeting (although sometimes you do as we are all human), but that phones are the way to reach someone. Unless you are on a trading floor where they are banned or very senior where your pa fields everyone. (I’d expect my husbands pa if he had one to prioritise my calls!)

What a strange comment. The point of being in a meeting is to discuss and deal with whatever the meeting was called for- not to carry on looking at every single message or e- mail that comes through.

I didn’t say read every single email that comes through during a meeting. But you need to be able to keep track of issues while out and about all day.

All this shows is that different employers and industries have different working practices.

I feel very lucky that mine is so relaxed.

Having said that I have seen loads of male colleagues ignore texts/ calls from partners at home with kids. Openly saying, oh it's my wife, CBA.

Not saying that's the case in ops situation obv.

I've not seen women do that unless they were less obvious about it!

I also know men who 'wfh' and can't be disturbed while their oh looks after the kids. When they are not really doing anything...

In my old job men would openly say they were 'working late' to avoid bath/ bedtime. Chatting to colleagues/ reading BBC etc.

Not all men obv and depends on employer. But, it's definitely a thing.

@timeisnotaline

I didn’t say read every single email that comes through during a meeting. But you need to be able to keep track of issues while out and about all day.

We're not talking about being out and about. The thread is about the OP's husband not taking her call during a meeting.

A regular 'how's it going' catch up with line manager.

YABU he was with his boss, it would have looked unprofessional had he taken it. He called you back right after.

It all depends on the culture.

In my job, it would be aok.

I am lucky.

I'm a bit surprised to read so many saying they would never do it.

In my old job as well it would be fine. So that's the last 8 years people (men and women) have taken calls from home if they seem urgent.

This is making me feel even more grateful that I'm in the industry i am in tbh.

OP I think I was a bit too focused on your particular example which I don’t really see as being something any parent should be expecting to do as a matter of course.

But in general I do see and totally agree with your point that men are far less likely to make accommodations at work for childcare activities and this has a knock on effect on women. I also think employers are still not sympathetic enough to requests for accommodation for caring responsibilities and in some workplaces even asking gains you a black mark against your name (yet a request for similar accommodations for some sport related hobby wouldn’t cause a similar negative reaction, even if refused).

I'm a tad confused, what was the emergency here, because you mention being on maternity leave and having a toddler off school sick, but not why your were trying to get hold of your husband. Was it an emergency?

For what it's worth, unless over of is had sent a message through before saying that it was urgent, neither me nor my husband would have answered a call in a meeting. We'd be unlikely to either have our phones with us or be looking at them either. I'd office back once is seen there was a missed call and it was convenient.

@NiceGerbil your experience is much more similar to mine and I'm shocked by how many people here work in places (even just offices) where no calls at all would be permitted. As you say, it shows just how different things are.

I also agree with the other poster who said switchboards etc are a thing of the past... in my experience (though obviously many here have a very different experience) it would never be the norm to call Reception to reach someone, and in large companies they might not even have a clue who you are or which floor you work on.

I will message ahead if this ever happens again but in this case, I was juggling a new baby and a sick toddler and trying to figure out what to do in order to get safely to a hospital (and to inform my husband this was happening and my oldest would need picking up from school). Luckily I found a neighbour. Most of my friends here live in condos and have never even met a neighbour, but I'm very lucky to live in a compound where we know each other and where some people speak Thai and can help deal with problems. So all fine in the end.

As I said, this may not have been the best example but it just got me thinking about how, in many cases, women work and still deal with shit that happens at home while men work and, well, don't! (Or not as much or as readily)

in my experience (though obviously many here have a very different experience) it would never be the norm to call Reception to reach someone, and in large companies they might not even have a clue who you are or which floor you work on.

It has never been the norm to call the switch board for personal calls. It was only something that the vast majority of people would have done in an emergency. The change is that until mobiles became ubiquitous it wasn’t the norm to contact someone at work outside of an emergency at all.

Yeah I guess for me I would silence the phone, try to wrap up the meeting ASAP, Then Call back. Would expect husband to do the same. Though I suppose if he called back right away I might assume it’s a really serious issue and call. Hmmm...

I do think it should be equal. Men being less responsive at work to family matters is definitely (broadly) a thing. But there’s more than 1 way to get there. You could answer less quickly or he more, you could agree to leave your phones off during meetings then check texts after. Good luck though it sounds frustrating.

Professional office based jobs (as a consultant I’ve worked at a lot of clients so not just mine) phones are normal, and being available via switchboard is something from old movies.

I have the opposite experience at both office jobs I've had - strict no checking phones at desks policies because there is confidential info. on the screen. I wouldn't take my bag into a meeting.
DH/childcare had my office phone number instead - if I didn't pick up another person in my team would.

There is no way I would answer a call during a meeting with my boss and nor would I expect her to.

I would probably get flustered and press the red button to stop the ringing, thereby hanging up, but I would call my husband back to explain/apologise as soon as possible afterwards.

and I'm shocked by how many people here work in places (even just offices) where no calls at all would be permitted. As you say, it shows just how different things are

What an exaggeration. Has anyone said that no personal calls is the norm.? I don't think so.

Many posters have said that it is unacceptable to take personal calls during a meeting. It is extremely unprofessional and rude to the other people in the meeting. There is a big difference between taking or making a personal call when you are on your own at your own desk and taking a personal call in the middle of a meeting.

IMO a "good" job is one with a good work life balance. Not one where people pride themselves upon being too professional to be allowed to respond to an emergency concerning their children.

I'm always surprised by how many MN posters seem to think the mark of being sucessful is being so "important" that they have to work 60 hours per week and can't answer their phone at work even when they know their spouse would never call unless it was a genuine emergency! That's pretty much the opposite of being successful IMO!

I wouldnt answer a phone call if I was in a meeting, unless it was from my child's pre-school.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

IMO a "good" job is one with a good work life balance. Not one where people pride themselves upon being too professional to be allowed to respond to an emergency concerning their children.

I'm always surprised by how many MN posters seem to think the mark of being sucessful is being so "important" that they have to work 60 hours per week and can't answer their phone at work even when they know their spouse would never call unless it was a genuine emergency! That's pretty much the opposite of being successful IMO!

No one has said anything about 60 hour weeks or being successful. You’ve made all that up. Lots of ordinary jobs you cannot answer or make personal calls or texts for most of the day. Otherwise, as many have said, you should not answer your phone in a meeting.

can't answer their phone at work even when they know their spouse would never call unless it was a genuine emergency

I have a job ,not a career and it pays peanuts. Definitely not successful. I'm simply not allowed to have my phone with me outside my breaks due to safeguarding issues. It is what it is.