Father v mothers in the workplace

[Eledamorena]

Yesterday I called my husband at work. We sometimes exchange texts during the day but I never call as obviously he may be busy, but he can reply to a text whenever he has the time.

I'm currently on maternity leave and my toddler is off school, sick. We live in SE Asia so any problems at home can become complicated.

He ignored the call and when I called again, he hung up. I messaged to say I just needed 2 minutes. He wouldn't take the call.

He said later that he was in a meeting with his boss and eventually admitted that he thinks it would look bad for him to take a personal call while at work. The meeting was a normal weekly catch-up, nothing critical. He gets on with his boss (boss is male and has children).

I was really annoyed because I never call at work so surely he should have assumed it was important? When I'm at work, I would be expected to take a call and then deal with whatever home-related problem there might be (childcare issue or sick child needing to be picked up or go to hospital or whatever). If I am judged by my boss for this, I have to take it on the chin.

Am I overthinking this? (Possibly, tired and hormonal!!)

I tried to explain to my husband that if he cannot say to his boss, 'Sorry, my son is sick today and my wife never calls me at work so I should take this, I'll just be a moment' then he either works for a misogynist twat or he thinks it's just not his problem?

It made me quite irrationally annoyed and I told him that women in the workplace picking this stuff up while men don't is one of the reasons there is no workplace equality. It doesn't help that in this part of the world, wives really do pick up the bulk of all domestic work and problems even if they work full time, and expat men in particular often enjoy the high life while their wives do everything else.

Not sure what I'm hoping to achieve with this post... perhaps reassurance that I'm not going insane thinking it's unfair that he feels able to ignore a potential problem at home while I would never be able to do so when I'm at work?

YANBU about the difference between the way men and women are treated regarding domestic matters in the workplace. You are right it is "assumed" often that the woman will take on the bulk of this responsibility.

However, I find it rude in principle to bring a personal mobile into a 121 work meeting. If I think there might be something I need to keep an eye on at home then I will bring my mobile into a meeting and explain why.

When my "female" senior colleagues have this issue they do step out of meetings often and I have also had a male manager do this. Usually along the lines of "my wife wouldn't ring me at work normally so I should probably take this". I've never had an issue with it.

YANBU in the sense that women as a class really are expected to pick up the slack when it comes to childcare and emergencies, which then means that our careers,jobs and choices are impacted by those responsibilities.

I cut off calls to my DH as he knows it means I'm busy, don't call back. If it's urgent he will then message and say so.
I think taking personal phone calls is unprofessional if it's more than 1 every so often. You definitely can't take them in a meeting. He was the one there able to read the situation. You can't be missed off with him for doing the professional thing.
Was it actually urgent? I don't understand why being in SE Asia means problems at home become complicated.

My old workplace you weren't allowed mobiles at all. It would have been a disciplinary offense to make or receive a personal call during work hours.
If there was an emergency at home people could call the main office number and be put through.

I am very sorry about the derail, but for those of you who are not reachable for hours during the day, please consider making some arrangements for emergencies.

My husband was travelling abroad and I was taking our three children (all under 11) back to London by train. I collapsed at the station due to a previously undiagnosed heart condition and was taken to hospital in an ambulance. The ambulance refused to take the children for safety reasons. Luckily my 10-year old had the password to my phone and tried to call my husband (travelling for business) who didn’t pick up as he was in an important meeting. Luckily she also had the sense to text him about what was happening. He was then able to call her straight back, speak to the station guards and arrange for his parents to pick the children up from the station. He also managed to get the first flight back.

I don’t want to think about what this situation would have been like if he had had his phone turned off for the (probably) two hour meeting or if our 10 year old had been left to try to figure out any emergency number together with the station guard (who was busy consoling our two youngest children who were crying uncontrollably). This issue came completely out of the blue, luckily now under control due to the amazing NHS.

I don’t think it is acceptable to take any call during a meeting (man or woman) unless there is an ongoing emergency. However, I think it is essential to be reachable (also by children) at all times when you are a parent (man or woman).

YANBU to think there are double standards, but in this case, I think it's a bit tricky as usually it would be completely inappropriate to take a personal call during a meeting.

My only small proviso might be that if you genuinely NEVER call him and of course he KNEW you had a sick child at home, there's an argument that the reason you were calling was genuinely urgent (although I note you haven't said what it was you wanted from him - did he need to race home because you were taking the DC to hospital or were you just desperate and wanted to ask him to leave as early as possible to give you a break? The former is a genuine emergency, the latter could wait until he could contact you back).

Certainly, I've had situations where I've been with a client but known that things might be a bit tricky at home or whatever, in which case I might have said something at the beginning of the meeting and certainly would have done so had the phone rung. And I've been in enough meetings with men who have kept their phone out because their wives are in the last few weeks of pregnancy to be prepared for that one too!

Our team would have no probs with this.

My boss has done it.

We all have families and our workplace is v flexible and relaxed.

I wouldn't expect a colleague to ignore what seems like a family emergency to talk to me about how's it going standard chat.

Different with clients.

@CoffeeTeaChocolate this is why I suggest contacting the office/employer directly, in my case both our employers have a switchboard. Lots of people aren't contactable 24/7 by their mobiles and wouldn't look professional answering a mobile depending on the environment they're in, I won't take mobiles to meetings nor will DH.

(That method worked just fine before we were all expected to be available 24/7!)

@notheragain4

I completely understand and respect that. What happened to our family was that my oldest, 10-years old found herself at a station with her two younger siblings watching her mum being taken away in an ambulance. She was able to unlock my phone and call her dad. I had never anticipated such a situation occurring and we had never discussed it. I was lucky that she was clever enough to send her dad a text when he didn’t pick up (as he was in a meeting).

She would probably not have been able to call my husband’s office. If there is an emergency number, it is good if the children know it. And that there is a mechanism for getting hold of the parents in an emergency. That was my only point. I never realised the importance of this until recently because I never envisioned a situation where our children would have to urgently reach their dad.

Once you have children you give up the right to put work (career development, job satisfaction etc) first 100% of the time.

Yes you can turn the phone to silent during a meeting (I do).
But you can also check for missed calls at an appropriate point and if you see several missed calls from your child’s school/nanny/other parent, the responsible thing to do is call to check all is ok.

It’s not ok that more women are able to do this than men.
It’s not ok that it’s like a game of chicken and women crack first.

The answer isn’t for women to be as single minded as men. The answer is for the workplace to accept parenting can be compatible with working.

@CoffeeTeaChocolate fair enough, I'm glad you're ok and your child was so switched on, I'm not sure what my nearly 10 year old would do so it's worth reflecting on!

I agree completely. And to clarify, I think this goes equally for men and women. And in a marriage, it needs to be an agreement in regards to who does the pick up etc if a child falls ill suddenly.

There is more of a complex discussion around what constitutes an emergency. In the OPs case, I would probably have dealt with it (caveat for not knowing the details), but I have managed to take a child with unmanageable fever (105 F) to the A&E whilst bringing the others). I would not have expected my husband to come if he had important meetings.

However, there may always be situations where a parent (mum or dad) is needed urgently. And it will probably come straight out of the blue.

I wouldn't answer in a meeting, but I wouldn't have my phone on me. We do have a central phone line though that if it's urgent a message can be relayed, even just to say to call asap, or they can transfer the call.

That's the same policy for men and women btw, the only exception would be if there was some sort of ongoing welfare thing which meant it was highly likely someone would need to call, in which case they can have their phones on them.

@notheragain4 thank you!

That was actually why I posted it. To hopefully have someone reflect on it. It was so unexpected and so dreadful for us and we were so lucky that my oldest was able to cope without a prior discussion about what to do. We have had extensive discussions with all three about emergencies now and how to deal with them. Hopefully it will never be needed again, but you never know!

I wouldn't answer my phone in a meeting. If I had reason to expect a call I'd have to answer (in my case, I did once have this with a doctor phoning me and I knew if I missed it I'd never get hold of him!) I'd let the person I was meeting with know (and offer to move the meeting if that was a practical solution).

@CoffeeTeaChocolate not a derail at all - worth us all thinking about what would happen in that sort of situation. Thank goodness your oldest was so sensible!

@PlanDeRaccordement I suppose you're right that this is self-imposed, but it doesn't feel like a choice... how can I not deal with any situation that arises? What's the alternative? Somebody has to and I think in many cases, women pick up more of this responsibility than men.

Thanks for everyone's responses. Interesting mix. Of course there are many jobs where it would be impossible or totally inappropriate to answer the phone, I just don't think that is the case in your average professional office-based job. I agree it would be a problem if were to happen more than once in a blue moon, but a one-off? I find it mind-boggling that any decent person would have a problem with a colleague taking a call in this way. Maybe I've been very lucky in my workplaces...

@dameofdilemma and @ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

You are among posters who have articulated better than me why I felt frustrated!! Perhaps yesterday wasn't the best example and I reacted more strongly than I should have, but I know his workplace is informal and I've also been spending too long reading the feminist pages on here

@Lucygucy being located here means that the language barrier can make all manner of things difficult. Calling an ambulance is not a good idea, not just because of language but also because they are privately contracted and you have to argue/bribe them to get them to take you to the correct hospital rather than the one they want to, and often the driver is also the paramedic so they can treat you in situ but not move you... so a relatively smooth (if stressful) process in the UK would be much more difficult here. Our street is also entirely flooded at the moment making it hard to call a car... my husband knows this because he has taken to walking to the train with his suit trousers rolled up and flip flops on his feet to prevent himself arriving at work soaked half way to his knees

dameofdilemma exactly.
CoffeeTeaChocolate excellent point and well done on raising such a capable, resourceful, calm in a crisis ten year old! I'm glad you're ok.
notheragain4 it didn't always work fine before mobile phones at all. I'm a 70s child and both my parents had "important" jobs. I remember actually howling in pain on the floor of the primary school secretary's office shortly before my eardrum burst, having been asked for the previous hour repeatedly whether I knew anyone else the secretary could call because my parents and the neighbor they had as an emergency contact were unreachable. The only other phone number I knew was my grandmother who lived hours away and couldn't drive!

Not sure I agree with the comments about "my workplace is relaxed about these things". Some jobs it's just impossible.
Do teachers don't take their phones into class? (they may do, I'm not sure).
Surgeons don't into theatre, supermarket staff don't answer calls on the checkout, or deli counter.
An office may be different, but generally people don't take private calls in meetings.

I'd always say 'are you free to speak' and wouldn't expect an immediate availability. If dh cut the call off and it was urgent I would text him the reason for the call and please ring asap. Yanbu about expectations though. But my work wouldn't put a childcare call through to me if I was in a meeting. They would bring a message in to me though. Maybe bypass his mobile next time and go through his reception?

[quote CoffeeTeaChocolate]@notheragain4

I completely understand and respect that. What happened to our family was that my oldest, 10-years old found herself at a station with her two younger siblings watching her mum being taken away in an ambulance. She was able to unlock my phone and call her dad. I had never anticipated such a situation occurring and we had never discussed it. I was lucky that she was clever enough to send her dad a text when he didn’t pick up (as he was in a meeting).

She would probably not have been able to call my husband’s office. If there is an emergency number, it is good if the children know it. And that there is a mechanism for getting hold of the parents in an emergency. That was my only point. I never realised the importance of this until recently because I never envisioned a situation where our children would have to urgently reach their dad.[/quote]
Loads of people are not contactable instantly by mobiles for any number of reasons from "battery is flat" to "sorry I'm actually conducting life- saving surgery at the moment"

In your situation had your husband not been instantly contactable the emergency services would have made arrangements. They weren't going to leave your children on the station platform.

In the OP's case I think it's extremely bad form to take a mobile phone into a meeting unless you knew in advance there was some very good reason that an important call was expected.

I don't think OP's husband was unreasonable.