Father v mothers in the workplace

[Eledamorena]

Yesterday I called my husband at work. We sometimes exchange texts during the day but I never call as obviously he may be busy, but he can reply to a text whenever he has the time.

I'm currently on maternity leave and my toddler is off school, sick. We live in SE Asia so any problems at home can become complicated.

He ignored the call and when I called again, he hung up. I messaged to say I just needed 2 minutes. He wouldn't take the call.

He said later that he was in a meeting with his boss and eventually admitted that he thinks it would look bad for him to take a personal call while at work. The meeting was a normal weekly catch-up, nothing critical. He gets on with his boss (boss is male and has children).

I was really annoyed because I never call at work so surely he should have assumed it was important? When I'm at work, I would be expected to take a call and then deal with whatever home-related problem there might be (childcare issue or sick child needing to be picked up or go to hospital or whatever). If I am judged by my boss for this, I have to take it on the chin.

Am I overthinking this? (Possibly, tired and hormonal!!)

I tried to explain to my husband that if he cannot say to his boss, 'Sorry, my son is sick today and my wife never calls me at work so I should take this, I'll just be a moment' then he either works for a misogynist twat or he thinks it's just not his problem?

It made me quite irrationally annoyed and I told him that women in the workplace picking this stuff up while men don't is one of the reasons there is no workplace equality. It doesn't help that in this part of the world, wives really do pick up the bulk of all domestic work and problems even if they work full time, and expat men in particular often enjoy the high life while their wives do everything else.

Not sure what I'm hoping to achieve with this post... perhaps reassurance that I'm not going insane thinking it's unfair that he feels able to ignore a potential problem at home while I would never be able to do so when I'm at work?

daisy lots of people are talking about not being allowed to answer the phone as a badge of being a professional. The weird bragging about putting work before everything else is all over MN. Its arse about face.

Workplace differences aside, I think this is an important discussion.

I think sometimes men and women may take different views of what constitutes an emergency. OP, my husband would trust me to deal with your situation and I would trust him in the same situation.

However, we had an instance where our son had fallen and needed to go to the A&E for stitches. We had a lovely nanny who had been with us since his birth and my husband did not feel the need to go. I did. That was my judgment and my job was very understanding.

Another time our daughter’s eardrum burst. None of us went. I knew it would happen as I had taken her to the doctor the evening before, she was on antibiotics and we had an amazing nanny. Another person would have made another choice.

I think it is essential that the situations where a parent has to be there is split equally. It is harder in the cases one parent (more often the mother in my experience) really would like to be there.

ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble that's different as you're not posting that you wouldn't answer the phone even if your spouse never called unless it as an emergency because of how it might "look" or because your respect for your colleages outweighs your concern for/ responsibility to your children. Neither have you presumably chosen an employer with this rule when you could easily look around for a more family friendsly one. Safeguarding and rules in a job you have no choice about are a different thing, not ideal but not your choice.

There is a big difference between taking or making a personal call when you are on your own at your own desk and taking a personal call in the middle of a meeting.

Exactly this. In a meeting, other people are giving up their time. OK, in this case it was a 121, but I can't imagine stopping a meeting with multiple people in there to take a call. Extremely rude.

IMO a "good" job is one with a good work life balance. Not one where people pride themselves upon being too professional to be allowed to respond to an emergency concerning their children.

Nobody has suggested this. But when you are in a meeting, you are working - giving your attention to the job you are paid to do. Most personal calls aren't emergencies, so meeting shouldn't be stopped for them.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

IMO a "good" job is one with a good work life balance. Not one where people pride themselves upon being too professional to be allowed to respond to an emergency concerning their children.

I'm always surprised by how many MN posters seem to think the mark of being sucessful is being so "important" that they have to work 60 hours per week and can't answer their phone at work even when they know their spouse would never call unless it was a genuine emergency! That's pretty much the opposite of being successful IMO!

What a collection of strawmen there. No one has said that.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

daisy lots of people are talking about not being allowed to answer the phone as a badge of being a professional. The weird bragging about putting work before everything else is all over MN. Its arse about face.

More strawmen. The thread was about interupting a meeting to take a personal call.

Do some of you not know what a meeting is?

Exactly this. In a meeting, other people are giving up their time. OK, in this case it was a 121, but I can't imagine stopping a meeting with multiple people in there to take a call. Extremely rude.

That's completely disengenious! Obviously you don't take the call in" the meeting Trigger Happy TV style, any more than you pull your trousers down and go to the toilet in* the meeting. That is so obvious it doesn't need saying! You quitely slip out, with or without a brief "excuse me" and a couple of words of explanation/ apology depending on the size of the meeting and what's appropriate, using your brian...

Dido

Do you not have an agreed plan in an emergency situation? My husband, childminder, schools know that in an actual emergency they call the main reception in my work place, that way a message can be sent to me immediately.. anything not urgent they call my phone and I reply when I can, my phone stays in my office and i never take it into meetings.
My husband works on building sites, I would call his mobile but with noise, being busy etc he doesn't always answer.. if I have a genuine emergency I have his bosses number and could call that.. I've never called his boss but we set up the agreement when I was home alone with my toddler and newborn and I fell in the garden and broke my ankle.. his phone had gone dead and no one was answering my calls for help.. now all the staff have the bosses number and site foreman's number just incase there are any real emergencies. I guess your emergency plan would all depend on the industry you're in.. but it's worth agreeing on one!

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Exactly this. In a meeting, other people are giving up their time. OK, in this case it was a 121, but I can't imagine stopping a meeting with multiple people in there to take a call. Extremely rude.

That's completely disengenious! Obviously you don't take the call in" the meeting Trigger Happy TV style, any more than you pull your trousers down and go to the toilet in* the meeting. That is so obvious it doesn't need saying! You quitely slip out, with or without a brief "excuse me" and a couple of words of explanation/ apology depending on the size of the meeting and what's appropriate, using your brian...

You can’t “just slip” out of a meeting when you are the chief scientist and chairing the meeting. Only interns, secretaries, and people who are nonessential have that freedom.

Use your brain. Not all women are just decorative and sit like a pretty wallflowers taking minutes while the big important men have a meeting.

You quitely slip out, with or without a brief "excuse me" and a couple of words of explanation/ apology depending on the size of the meeting and what's appropriate, using your brian...

I lead the meetings, everyone in the meeting is vital, if someone leaves the meeting has to stop. If someone uses their mobile phone in a meeting they receive a verbal warning.

How will using a Brian help?

'Use your brain. Not all women are just decorative and sit like a pretty wallflowers taking minutes while the big important men have a meeting.'

Fucking hell what an awful comment.

I wouldn’t pick up the call in a meeting nor expect anyone else to. Incredibly rude!

This thread has really made me appreciate my employers/s and industry!

@SimonJT

You quitely slip out, with or without a brief "excuse me" and a couple of words of explanation/ apology depending on the size of the meeting and what's appropriate, using your brian...

I lead the meetings, everyone in the meeting is vital, if someone leaves the meeting has to stop. If someone uses their mobile phone in a meeting they receive a verbal warning.

How will using a Brian help?

Maybe Brian can take the call?

Or step in and keep the meeting going while the parent deals with the emergency.

@NiceGerbil

'Use your brain. Not all women are just decorative and sit like a pretty wallflowers taking minutes while the big important men have a meeting.'

Fucking hell what an awful comment.

I can see why it was made- given the idea that some posters have that it's perfectly fine to interrupt a work meeting for a personal matter.

You quitely slip out, with or without a brief "excuse me" and a couple of words of explanation/ apology depending on the size of the meeting and what's appropriate, using your brian..

Ah yes, very professional. If your company is one that has meetings full of uneccessary people for no reason, then sure. If however they utilise their staff properly, then no. You just 'slipping out' is hugely disruptive. Sure for actual emergencies fine, but people's perceptions of an emergency differs greatly.

PlanDeRaccordement fucking hell how unpleasant are you! I hope your boss is a woman who soon finds out how much contempt you have for secretarial employees and whoever else you deem "non essential" and sends you for some training!

What is all this aggression and unpleasantness towards people whose employers/ industry have a more relaxed working culture?

Can't people understand that things are different in different places? This idea that what you have must be the norm and anyone who is lucky enough to have a different experience is variously rude, unprofessional, and also bizarrely only in work as eye candy for the important men...

Some posters here are really not covering themselves with glory.

I think it is sad that we fight over this on a feminist board. Surely all industries have different standards and the more relevant discussion is whether those standards are applied to men and women in the same way?

I agree coffee 100%>

I also think it is premature to make assumptions on others based on very little information (such as intern or secretary).

When I worked, private phones were banned on certain floors and generally completely frowned upon. Most professionals except the most junior ones had a work phone. The number was only held by colleagues- and spouse. Others used the personal landline or personal phone, the latter checked at the end of the day.

Nobody would call someone on the work mobile, daytime unless it was very urgent. Nobody would ever call when they were in a meeting (we had access to each other’s diaries) unless it was an absolute emergency and deemed as such in relation to that particular meeting (for a client meeting, I assume any sane person would check with the colleague’s boss first). Partners never called the office mobile as far as I know (they would have in case of an A&E incident - depending on severity, OP’s situation would not be even near I’m afraid).

As such, depending on meeting, men and women might answer their phone. Extreme client emergency would trump internal meeting. Most of my colleagues would have discreetly checked texts if their phone would have kept vibrating as they would assume the world was collapsing.

We all have different experiences and work in different industries. Hopefully we can learn from each other. I want (for my daughters) that they are aware of the judgement women sometimes get and continue to fight for equally in their particular work place, subject to their particular rules.

I'm a woman and an employer. I would be seriously unimpressed if my employees took personal phone calls during a work meeting, whether it was with workmates or clients.

If I were the client I would be seriously unimpressed if the people I am paying to do work for me took personal calls in the middle of a business meeting.

Surely all industries have different standards and the more relevant discussion is whether those standards are applied to men and women in the same way?

Yes, I would be as unimpressed by a man behaving like this as a woman.

@DidoLamenting , I think that is completely fair and what we should aspire to for all work places.

I was actually wondering today why I thought it might be ok to take a call (depending on meeting) and realised it was for the reasons I outlined above. Very specific for my particular industry. I can add to that that I probably can count the number of times a call came through in an internal meeting on my fingers (during 14 years). I never saw it happen in an external meeting.

We all have different circumstances, the important thing is the equality under those circumstances.

We all have different circumstances, the important thing is the equality under those circumstances.

While the equality of treatment is very important, from a feminist perspective it isn't the only important thing. If standards are too unfriendly towards outside caregiving responsibilities, even if evenly applied in the workplace, the overall impact is going to be detrimental to women.