Nigella Lawson - another disappointment

[Kit19]

Any celebrity who thinks we should all just be kiiiiinddd

Easy question.

Quaagers do you think spaces should be segregated by biological sex, or by gender?

If by gender, can you explain how people without genders will be included?

Ive been asking that very easy question for several years now and never once had a reply.

No - but the conflation between DBS checks in schools and the need to go to the loo was a bit hmm which is what I was referring to.

But the argument for allowing males into the toilets is 'we should believe that people are who they say they are, and anyway some bad people slip through the net, so we should do away with the safeguarding we have in place (in this case single sex facilities)'. This would be the exact same argument for abolishing DBS checks but no one thinks we should do that, so why is the same argument OK to use about toilets or other female spaces?

As others said, the whole toilets thing isn't really the main issue and TRAs jump on it as a way to avoid the more difficult questions of prisons, refuges, sports etc.

Don't know enough about that person or case to be able to comment, but have been here long enough to know things can be twisted so would like to hear both sides before forming an opinion

I would certainly encourage you to read up on the matter, in particular the comments of her opponent.

If by gender, can you explain how people without genders will be included?

Never thought of that before. It must be tough being non binary!

"Sounds like the religions that need examining to me that are prejudicing against people."

You should start a campaign around this. See how you get on.

Don't know enough about that person or case to be able to comment, but have been here long enough to know things can be twisted so would like to hear both sides before forming an opinion

Fallon Fox is a MTF transgender MMA fighter. Fox fought a female fighter called Tamikka Brents and in the first round Brents suffered a concussion, an orbital bone fracture, and seven staples to the head in the 1st round. Brents said that she had never fought someone with that kind of strength before.

Fallon Fox recently said this on Twitter.

All of the above are irrefutable facts, so there is nothing to twist.

“Don't know enough about that person or case to be able to comment, but have been here long enough to know things can be twisted so would like to hear both sides before forming an opinion

I would certainly encourage you to read up on the matter, in particular the comments of her opponent.”

Although fox was subsequently beaten convincingly by a female opponent so not necessarily the best example.

You should start a campaign around this. See how you get on

Yeah, agree, religious and/or bigot mindsets have a lot to answer for

Would also add that Brents did not know Fox was transgender. There was no reason for Fox to label her a TERF (or TEF, apparently.)

@Quaagars

Let's start easy - do you think DBS checks should be abolished on the basis that 'we should believe people when they say who they are and baddies will slip through the net anyway?'

No - but the conflation between DBS checks in schools and the need to go to the loo was a bit which is what I was referring to.

Do you think it's fair that someone like Fallon Fox, who is male, should be able to break a female's skull (and then later boast about his they 'enjoyed it' on social media) in the name of 'insclusivity'?
Don't know enough about that person or case to be able to comment, but have been here long enough to know things can be twisted so would like to hear both sides before forming an opinion

Of the 'be kind' people who have been on this thread, there was one who claimed never to have heard of Jessica Yaniv, and now one who claims never to have heard of Fallon Fox. And one maintained that they knew of no incidents in which a transwoman had preyed on women or girls in women's toilets.

Anyone who is so ignorant of what is actually happening in the name of 'trans inclusivity' has no place on here telling us to 'be kind'.

As the TRAs say - educate yourself.

Come back when you know a little more about the reality of what you are advocating actually leads to.

You could start here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Yeah, agree, religious and/or bigot mindsets have a lot to answer for

But Transgenderism is a religion. It's a faith based belief system. Why is that different to other religions?

SoManyActivities
OK thank you for that side, as I said never really heard of that person before so yes want to hear both sides for a balanced view as just the way I do things

And all it took Fox was 2 minutes and 17 seconds.

But Transgenderism is a religion. It's a faith based belief system. Why is that different to other religions?

Don't get this.
Why can I not be who I am? Being trans gender that is. (For clarity, I'm cs, white, straight) I'm me
If I wasn't in those boxes though, why should I have to fight?
I'd be doing nothing wrong

@Quaagars

You should start a campaign around this. See how you get on

Yeah, agree, religious and/or bigot mindsets have a lot to answer for

I don't think any of us here would accept bigoted behaviour. Just some people throw the word around without understanding its meaning. Religion on the other hand is a protected characteristic so you can't do anything about it whether you agree with it or not. Same as sex. So we're back to square one regarding women who will be excluded due to religious or traumatic reasons. Why don't they matter?

Transwomen are women

A statement that has no basis in fact or science, but is a purely religious belief

Although fox was subsequently beaten convincingly by a female opponent so not necessarily the best example.

Given what Fallon Fox has said on Twitter about 'loving smacking up TERFs in the cage' and showing a rather worrying propensity towards violence that goes way beyond their sport, I would say its a really fucking good example!

Don't get this.

You're saying that it's wrong for religions to have rules around male and female interaction, because that's bigoted. Whilst simultaneously saying that people should accept other people's belief system (when that belief system is the myth of having a female brain in a male body or vice versa) without question because it's bigoted not to accept it. It's a totally inconsistent position.

Quaagers its intresting you call yourself cis.

That means you have a gender identity, presumably female?

Can you explain to a non-cis woman what that actually means to you?

In fairness @yourhairiswinterfire it only took Ashlee Evans-Smith 2 minutes longer to defeat Fallon Fox.

Why can I not be who I am? Being trans gender that is.

Well, everyone is free to be who they want to be, as long as it doesn't impact on others.

A male wanting access to a woman's space does impact on others.

A bit like the way that I know people who are religious - I am not religious at all and think it's all a load of bollocks. I wouldn't say that to them, because they don't expect anything from me, they respect my right not to believe in their god and we get along just fine. If they started insisting that I repeat their prayers and mantras, that I was a bigot if I didn't believe in their God, and told me that their religion means that I have to change the way I live my life.... Well, I might tell them that I think their religions is bullshit and that they can fuck right off.

Transwomen are women

A statement that has no basis in fact or science, but is a purely religious belief

It's impossible to be a transwoman without being a biological male. It's impossible to be a transman without being a biological female.

I don't get why that's such an offensive statement, but here we are 🤷‍♀️

Why can I not be who I am? Being trans gender that is.

You can be who you want. But if you're a man who believes he is a woman, you can't force other people to to believe that.

There's a difference between freedom of belief and having the right to impose your beliefs on other people who don't hold those beliefs.

In fairness @yourhairiswinterfire it only took Ashlee Evans-Smith 2 minutes longer to defeat Fallon Fox.

Did Ashlee Evans-Smith crack Fox's skull in those short 2 minutes?