Nigella Lawson - another disappointment

[Kit19]

Any celebrity who thinks we should all just be kiiiiinddd

@Quaagars

Can you seriously not see how hypocritical you look, when people are pointing out the exclusion of females from female spaces and the problems of that?

I'm not excluded though. Trans women and biological women have been going to the toilet together for years.
I can still go to the women's toilet when out.

So you only give a shit about yourself then? No care for the women and girls that will be excluded? Noted.

Are you just having fun being antagonistic now, or would you like me to explain how not all women are you, and that women exist who cannot just 'still go to the women's toilet when out'? And that it would be inclusive to not deprive them of all services?

@Quaagars what's your view on self-id? How do you define transwoman? Is there a criteria to be fulfilled? Do you feel a certain amount of 'effort' needs yo be made before you would be happy to share a toilet with a transwoman, or would any male who declared himself a woman be OK with you?

I can still go to the women's toilet when out.

You might be able to, but many other women can't.

You're ok with them being excluded?

Let's have some opinions

I've already given mine, soz if they weren't to your liking though, or you can't see them!

Just having fun being antagonistic, with no actual answers to any of this, or ability to engage in discussion about them.

Got it.

Isabelle the Adam’s Apple isn’t always visible though - for example if they have a particularly bushy beard.

Focus on the toilet is really skirting round the real issues, but let's stay with it

great you are happy using mixed sex toilets.

Yet it seems some male bodied people are choosy about which toilets they use and want to use ones with female bodied people in only

Yet it seems that female bodied people who want to use toilets with only female bodied people in are not human enough to be granted that choice

Bit meanie isn't it ?

You might be able to, but many other women can't

OK
Guessing at religion based?
If so, why not focus on any religion that says you can't be anywhere near a biological male?
What's it got to do with trans people?
Trans people just going about, being themselves. Nothing to do with being predatory, or whatever.
Sounds like the religions that need examining to me that are prejudicing against people.
If not that, what did you mean?

I've already given mine, soz if they weren't to your liking though, or you can't see them!

So you are not going to actually engage with me, you are just going to ignore and avoid difficult questions?

Obviously you don't have to engage with me and my questions or anyone else's, but then I think it's a bit off to then go on about how 'aggressive' everyone is towards 'different opinions'.

I think Quaagers has made it perfectly clear that as long as they and those born male are ok, no one else matters.

are just going to ignore and avoid difficult questions?

What question did you ask me

Why should a male bodied person be allowed to say who they feel comfortable being around but a female bodied person not be allowed that right?

See you glossed over the trauma that sex abuse victims suffer

If not that, what did you mean?

It's worrying you're this ill informed about female barriers and needs. However they've been repeatedly described on this thread, in detail, so if you actually read the thread you're posting on you'll find all the information you're asking for.

I think Quaagers has made it perfectly clear that as long as they and those born male are ok, no one else matters

Oh pfft, cos yeah that's what I said lol not

If not that, what did you mean?

How about women who have already suffered trauma at the hands of a male and cannot share an intimate space with one?

Or women and girls who, for whatever reason, just aren't comfortable to share an intimate space with a male? Is that bigotry?

Trans women have been in the toilets for years. I've never noticed.

That's probably because they're a tiny % of the population. Which makes it even more worrying that lobby groups are campaigning to remove sex as a protected characteristic, to benefit the tiny %. It makes it worrying that women's toilets/changing rooms/rape crisis centres are being opened up to any males to appease the tiny %. It makes me wonder why said lobby group isn't using their fortune to campaign for 3rd spaces, for the tiny %. It seems like some get a real thrill out of making women as uncomfortable as possible.

Transwomen (the majority of) are not the problem. It's been said a million times. But it can't be denied that this has created a massive loophole for dangerous men to abuse.

@Quagaers given you must have missed them (even though I posted it several times!)

Here are some questions again

Let's start easy - do you think DBS checks should be abolished on the basis that 'we should believe people when they say who they are and baddies will slip through the net anyway?'

Do you think it's fair that someone like Fallon Fox, who is male, should be able to break a female's skull (and then later boast about his they 'enjoyed it' on social media) in the name of 'insclusivity'?

Do you think it's right that children well below the age of 16 are being given untested off label drugs, particularly when more and more experts in the field are voicing concerns about it?

If not that, what did you mean?

I meant any and all reasons that might mean a woman or girl might feel unable to use a public toilet if she saw a man go in, or feared that a man might come in. So...past trauma, little girls who are generally wary of strange men, women who are struggling with gynae problems and want privacy, elderly ladies with incontinence issues who want privacy, women whose religion won't allow it. And any other reason up to and including 'because they just don't feel comfortable'.

Sorry that should say @Quaggers

Argh, I'll try again!

@Quaagars

I have also noticed that those in favour of gender ideology fixate on the toilet issue, even when that issue is probably the least important of all the concerns raised.

However, many more concerns have been brought up: sports, the medicalization of healthy children, women's entitlement to female healthcare providers, males in women's prisons, male-bodied people in single-sex communal changing rooms (i.e no cubicles) AGP (which admittedly can't be discussed on Mumsnet), the reinforcement of gender stereotypes etc. etc.

These points are left unaddressed and the response to all these things is 'yeah but I don't mind sharing toilets and my trans friend is really nice'.

Yet it seems some male bodied people are choosy about which toilets they use and want to use ones with female bodied people in only

Remember that story, last week or so was it? A pervert filmed a woman in a toilet on his phone. When he was noticed, he ran into the men's for sanctuary, to delete the evidence. Because he knew she wouldn't follow him in there.

Women aren't allowed any such sanctuary, because it's #unkind.

Transwomen refuse to use male spaces on the basis they dont identify as men.
So really we need no other reason not to share, than we dont identify as transwomen.

It makes me sad to see women open up about traumatic experiences of rape and abuse to justify themselves. Men dont do that. Transwomen dont. Why should we be expected too?

Let's start easy - do you think DBS checks should be abolished on the basis that 'we should believe people when they say who they are and baddies will slip through the net anyway?'

No - but the conflation between DBS checks in schools and the need to go to the loo was a bit which is what I was referring to.

Do you think it's fair that someone like Fallon Fox, who is male, should be able to break a female's skull (and then later boast about his they 'enjoyed it' on social media) in the name of 'insclusivity'?
Don't know enough about that person or case to be able to comment, but have been here long enough to know things can be twisted so would like to hear both sides before forming an opinion