Toilets for all

[marniedes]

Was out for some dinner and drinks last night went to use the toilets and this is what they were. Most toilet seats were up and when I went to wash my hands there was a guy washing his who looked as uncomfortable as I felt! Why why why are places doing this!

This is the closest I can find as to actual evidence as to who is and who is not comfortable using unisex toilets. Interestingly, in the states at least, higher income people are far more comfortable using them. I am not sure what that says.

today.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2013/09/13/unisex-toilets-british-women-most-reluctant-share-

And I do get that you're just having a bit of fun here, you've got no skin in this game and you find it all quite amusing. Whatever floats your boat, it's an open forum. But useful for the lurkers to see how uninclusive, unequal, naiive or just disinterested about the reality of womanhood, misogynistic, patronising and downright uncaring this side of the debate has to be to sustain itself.

I do remember at university (many years ago) femsoc was campaigning FOR unisex loos, to give them greater access and more choices.

Interestingly, in the states at least, higher income people are far more comfortable using them. I am not sure what that says

That is interesting, wonder why...different life experiences maybe?

Ok, so the first graph on your link shows that more women in USA, UK and France and uncomfortable with mixed sex facilities than are comfortable.

It also says more men in those countries are comfortable than uncomfortable.

This supports your argument how, exactly.

higher income people are far more comfortable using them. I am not sure what that says.

Well privilege for a start. For example Layla Moran is not likely to have to deal with the realities of using a refuge or being locked up in prison with a male serial rapist who wants to share the shower. Or know what it's like to have male relatives who won't allow you to go and swim unless they're certain it's female only changing rooms and swim times.

It's let them eat cake, which is what women here are trying to say to you. Being naïve about the realities of this for some women, and the consequences of just excluding those women for being insufficiently privileged and cool is not much of an excuse.

Actual evidence?

And the voices if women here???

And yes, your grasp of historical issues is lacking. There were no facilities for women, that way women could not go out alone, were forced to stay home or visit the homes if friends.

They were originally decried, much like the pillar box and the railway, for giving women too much freedom from male oversight.

Trans women are women. We just look a bit different from other women, OK? Maybe our appearance grosses you out a bit, and I'm sorry it does. We just want to get along with our live like any other woman. We aren't a threat or an enemy to you.

Trans women are not women. You can say it until you're blue in the face but that doesn't make it true. This was a thread about mixed sex toilets not about if TW should use women's toilets.

I presume as a trans woman you would also feel uncomfortable about being in loos where you had no option but to see men standing pissing into a toilet without their cubicle door shut?

I want you to be able to get on with your life in safety and comfort. It would be really nice if TW were to acknowledge that this is all that GC women want for themselves, too.

Until men's urine is not rank and their aim is good, I don't want to share! On the one or two occasions I've blundered into the wrong toilet, it was the pong that alerted me before my foot had crossed the threshold.

If wealthy people are less bothered it's probably because country clubs, top hotels and exclusive retailers keep their luxurious loos sparkly clean with attendants on-hand. I always love having immaculate real towelling handwipes piled up and a laundry hamper to drop them in, not to mention Molton Brown handwash and lotion standing by. What's not to like?

This made me laugh on this subject!

www.facebook.com/CollegeHumor/videos/638837190250795/

Colleague

So true. When something functional becomes mission creeped into socially signalling extremely hip and RightOn… something or other....

and ceases to be functional. Or to serve the purpose it was set up to do.

We have a whole government like that.

Interestingly, in the states at least, higher income people are far more comfortable using them

My first thought is cleanliness - if I'm using mixed-sex toilets in, a fancy restaurant, or a 5* hotel, or business class, they are a darn site cleaner, no matter who's using them, than if it were in a kebab shop or shopping centre, or economy (not that I'm saying kebab shops or travel-inns have mixed sex toilets as a rule, or that they don't do what they can with the resources they have. The airplane though, that's a thing). Hell - even the toilets in the posh bit of Westfield London are cleaner than the ones in the rest of it!

Having been places frequented by all income levels, frequency, and expectations of cleaning are funnily enough higher in the the bits where people have the money to pay for it.

I do remember at university (many years ago) femsoc was campaigning FOR unisex loos, to give them greater access and more choices

How long ago was it? 20something years ago, I was one of about 5 females using the electronics dept at my building, and the toilet we had to use was in a separate unit attached to the engineering dept. (there was another, but it was for postgrads only - although I don't think I ever saw a female electronics postgrad, and the only people I saw coming in and out were male postgrads who used it to change after cycling in) so had I had time to get involved with femsoc, I would have been up for making one of the male toilets in Electronics mixed

Context is everything.

If there is only one toilet as in a coffee shop, OK, otherwise not.

I'd be interested in the year as well.

I would really recommend Prof Clara Greed’s talk at WPUK on toilets to anyone who hasn’t seen it. She’s an academic town planner and long term campaigner on accessible, inclusive public toilets.
She absolutely gets why women need single sex toilets- as well as being an awesome speaker. Link in this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3427591-WPUK-Bath-fascinating-important-speech-by-Clara-Greed-Professor-of-Inclusive-Urban-Planning-specialist-in-toilet-provision-with-particular-emphasis-upon-womens-needs