Toilets for all

[marniedes]

Was out for some dinner and drinks last night went to use the toilets and this is what they were. Most toilet seats were up and when I went to wash my hands there was a guy washing his who looked as uncomfortable as I felt! Why why why are places doing this!

No one segregates loos at home (and most have builders, cleaners, window cleaners etc using them quite happily).

This 'argument' is so batshit mad I don't even have the energy to counter it. In any case the counter arguments must be screamingly obvious to anyone in possession of a sentient mind.

No one segregates loos at home (and most have builders, cleaners, window cleaners etc using them quite happily).

but even if that argument did hold a thimbleful of water, why are transwomen so precious as to not want to use men's public loos then? Presumably they manage fine at home alongside their male family members and sundry tradesmen.

Isabelle the idea about men having to queue making facilities provision better is a good idea but

In a situation with lots of alcohol some will just use the sink/ beer garden/ pavement outside etc.

The sharing of loos is very common where I live on the continent. Women often have to file past men using urinals to get to the cubicles.

There was a thread on here a while back referencing a survey of how women used work loos and the things listed were:

• peeing and pooing
• changing sanitary towels/tampons and dealing with heavy periods/emptying & washing mooncups
• morning sickness
• dealing with post-birth urinary incontinence
• dealing with leaky boobs/expressing milk
• and sadly, having a miscarriage

I don't think it's unreasonable, given the above list, for women to have an exclusive space in which to handle these (apart from the first two) exclusively female activities. To my mind that is not "precious" at all.

And that's aside from the basic issue of physical safety, and women walking in to an unfamiliar confined area where there are doors to hide behind/locking doors etc.

Oh good idea delirium

Ohdear,

‘Women’ are not saying it, most women I know (and many on here) don’t give two hoots about loos. Post the same thread in chat or AIBU and I suspect the vast majority of replies from women will be that they care little about loos.

I do get fed up with the idea that if you have not personally experienced something, you can’t comment. And, it is funny how many women comment on circumcision and how it affects men’s enjoyment of sex. Just look at the threads...

I do get fed up with the idea that if you have not personally experienced something, you can’t comment. And, it is funny how many women comment on circumcision and how it affects men’s enjoyment of sex. Just look at the threads

That will be because not everyone thinks you can’t comment if you haven’t experienced something

Its the whole ‘people have different views’ thing

The reasons it gets mentioned are twofold.

First is it started in USA where I'm told it's common to have big gaps at the side of the door that people can see through a bit. No idea why but it's understandable that gives more cause for concern.

Second is it's a thin end of the wedge thing. If it's accepted that anyone who says they are female are in fact female then there is no reason to keep them out of anything else just for women eg prisons, sports, secure mental health facilities etc. And that would need to be in a self id basis if that law goes through. Simple online form. Everything currently for women would be lost. Much of it is already happening of course. First woman to do X, female prizes for business etc, counting women in certain roles, and so on.

Also as others say it's galling to have a man saying what's the fuss stop being so silly. By definition a man might well not understand at all, but still insists he knows best.

It's about principle.

If the answer is yes, TWAW, then it's game over for everything.

This thread was about mixed sex toilets though.

It got diverted by a poster mid way through.

Most men and women don't want mixed sex toilets.

How many men want long queues, or to be doing their hair when the woman they fancy at work walks in. Or to go for a shit while women he works with are having a natter outside.

This thread was about mixed sex toilets though.It got diverted by a poster mid way through

Excellent reminder

most women I know (and many on here) don’t give two hoots about loos. Post the same thread in chat or AIBU and I suspect the vast majority of replies from women will be that they care little about loos.

Well bully for them.

What do you intend to do with the women who are not able to use mixed sex facilities and have neither the privilege nor the luxury of not caring?

Because I care about things like that.

If you've seen any properly carried out surveys of women to establish figures on how women feel about this, and about gaining a mandate from women to do this, do let me know? Because I haven't.

If you've seen any properly carried out surveys of women to establish figures on how women feel about this, and about gaining a mandate from women to do this, do let me know? Because I haven't

I’d imagine thats its how the question is asked as well and, exactly how the toilets are being described

Yes exactly about layout.

Many are single sex blocks just opened to all.

The whole thing about SOME women are ok with it so everything should be fine for ALL women is just so fecking stupid! I don't particularly have an issue with mixed toilets for myself but I am not so selfish and ignorant to assume that just because I am ok, then others should be too. I am concerned for young girls, women of faith, women who have been abused and traumatised and yes, women who don't like it and don't consent to it.

If one woman has a problem with it and says NO, then I too have a problem with it and I also say NO.

The 'no women I know give two hoots^ argument is also one for third spaces.

Add gender neutral spaces, and all those no hooting women can go and use those with any males who want, Layla Moran can be in there seeing souls, it'll be lovely.

And keep a single sex space for the females who do mind and whose ability to use public spaces will be completely fucked over otherwise.

Layout is key. But, as seen here, cannot be discussed without it becoming all about The Trans.

OP wrote about the layout of specific toilet facilities being uncomfortable for both her and a male occupent

And since then we've been told by a transwoman and a man the OP and we women, are being silly. No mention of the man...

Why is that, do you think?

If one woman has a problem with it and says NO, then I too have a problem with it and I also say NO

Hear hear

Rufus,

So if one religious woman or man wants restaurant dining segregated (as is common in some countries), would you support her in demanding restaurants offer women (and men) only dining areas?

No one has to eat in a particular restaurant and, if enough women felt strongly enough, the economic pressure would force the restaurant to provide single sex loos.

larry

Try to focus

We are talking about toilets

larry it would be a huge cultural change to segregate restaurants by sex in this country (and the US I guess) which is very different from keeping the convention the same. Your example would be changing the system to one most people are unfamiliar with, like making toilets mixed sex.

Delirium,

Agreed, but for hundreds of years prior, toilets were mixed.

It is a cultural thing, with most in continental Europe far less concerned with mixed facilities.

But do you think women really care? Going to a particular restaurant would be very low down most people’s priorities. However, the OP was merely annoyed, but not enough to boycott the restaurant (or at least she has not stated it).

If women really cared enough to restaurants over it, they would be providing the most beautiful sweetly scented single sex loos that they could.

Unscented actually! Totally unscented.

I thought that women had to fight for public facilities and before they started to get them. Before that. Not mixed facilities, just facilities for men.

www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/History-of-Womens-Public-Toilets-in-Britain/#:~:text=The%20story%20in%20Britain%20starts,was%20a%20plumber%20from%20Brighton.&text=In%20the%20mid-19th%20century,public%20sphere%20was%20for%20men.

In addition, do you believe the overseas charities when they say that female only toilets are essential for women's safety, dignity and ability to fully access things like schooling.

Next, I've travelled a reasonable amount in Europe and even recently hitting up a French squat toilet in a park, there was one for women and one for men, clearly labelled.

You make these statements but you don't seem to really know the history.

Do women really care...……. you're talking on this thread to women telling you they do?

Again. What are you going to do with the women now unable to access public toilets where they have been made mixed sex to benefit the better wellbeing and choices for males? Being as the primary purpose of female toilets is to meet the needs of women?