Stonewall Lobby World Rugby

[SunsetBeetch]

Ffs I am so sick of this agenda-heavy lobby group and their war against women's rights!

(Note that they are controlling who can reply to them too.)

“We are asking rugby clubs at all levels of the game to stand with us against a ruling that is exclusionary and that will impact some of the most vulnerable people in the community”.

Join us and
@LgbtiqS
in calling
@WorldRugby
to #TackleTransphobia lgbtiqsportalliance.org.uk/uk-lgbtiq-sport

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1296801438211944455?s=20

@DianasLasso

Why that have chosen rugby as the sporting hill to die on is just bizarre

There were a couple of interesting thoughts on this upthread.

One is a deliberate attempt to shift the Overton window, by picking on the most extreme cases first (male bodied individuals in women's prisons was also mentioned).

The other (not entirely sure, may actually just be a variant on the above) - go for the most out-there, over-the-top suggestion in the hope that you will then be given free access to the rest of women's sport as a consolation prize.

This is why we have to keep stressing that it's both safety and fair competition that matter. Even if there's no contact involved - 100m, long jump, etc., it's still fundamentally unfair to women's sport to allow biological males to compete regardless of how many drugs they are taking.

I don't remember who it was that said thay haven't chosen this hill, it's been chosen for them, is right.

It's a bad choice for Stonewall, but as the rugby organisations have pushed back, they have to answer that.

If they can't, they can no longer claim that TWAW in the exact same way that other women are. And that is the lynchpin of all their rights claims.

I don’t think it’s lose lose for rugby. Stonewall & company have been screaming at rugby ever since they started to look into this & they haven’t taken a backwards step yet. They’ve handled it brilliantly - been completely transparent, genuinely invited all sides to be involved & given them all an equal platform in a 3 day seminar. There is no argument to make in favour at all other than the emotional be kiiinnddd

I’m more concerned at the “well not rugby cos contact but other less dangerous sports are fine” approach

This is why we have to keep stressing that it's both safety and fair competition that matter. Even if there's no contact involved - 100m, long jump, etc., it's still fundamentally unfair to women's sport to allow biological males to compete regardless of how many drugs they are taking.

Agree absolutely

They’ve handled it brilliantly - been completely transparent, genuinely invited all sides to be involved & given them all an equal platform in a 3 day seminar.

I agree. It has been a masterclass in approaching a topic with openness and a genuine spirit of enquiry. We can only hope other sporting bodies follow suit. World Rugby have done a lot of the heavy lifting for them in collating and interrogating the evidence base. 👍

Also, thank you to rugby players (both male and female) who have contributed to this thread. It’s interesting to hear from players with experience of the game.

Also, thank you to rugby players (both male and female) who have contributed to this thread. It’s interesting to hear from players with experience of the game

Safety is taken seriously, there are strict guidelines on when you can return to playing following a head injury etc even in the lower leagues, especially prevelent since the sad loss of a few female rugby players. It is a dangerous game, most of us have had broken bones, had to take time out due to injury, and work really hard to keep up with the physical demands of the game which can lead to problems. Speaking for myself I still love it, I only attend training sessions now (well, pre covid, our local team hasn't started back yet) as I cannot commit to matches, but it's a great community, and one that is extremely inclusive; just not to things that make the game ridiculously unsafe.

This is why we have to keep stressing that it's both safety and fair competition that matter.

Agreed - but they are ultimately inseparable - the safety concern is is also rooted in the unfairness of men vs women - power, velocity, anthropometrics etc. When people see safety, they cannot help but see unfairness.

This is a shining light for many of the uninitiated.

Have the Rugby authorities published their findings already or is it imminent? My hope is that when one states women’s sport is for women, more will do so.

I’ve written about this before, but my team played a uk military B team and they had a trans woman playing.

2 outcomes.

1. The skilful, complex aspects of a multi-phase high-level game were eliminated as they had one tactic: shovel the ball to 12 who then steamrollered us because she had been through male puberty. It was like going back to the early days of crap female rugby.

1. More significantly, there were 5 catastrophic injuries that day relating to shoulders and knees from tackling or being tackled by the 12. 2 in particular were career ending. The TW wasn’t massively bigger (second or 3rd tallest person on pitch), but their shoulders and legs were just so dense and heavy. It was like trying to tackle moving concrete posts. Never experienced that even playing against XX chromosome Scotland A and England B team players.

@PronounssheRa

What pisses me off the most about this, and shows Stonewall up for what it is, is there is zero concern for the women who will get seriously injured, no concern about lost sporting opportunities for women. It's all about men's feeling.

Stonewall are a disgrace and no wonder they disabled replieds on that tweet. Cowards.

I'm too much of an optimist but I really thought this would be the one issue where even the likes of Stonewall might balk but no, even women getting injured is an acceptable price to pay to prevent these "hurt feelings".

Away from the activists I do think a lot of trans people recognise this isn't a hill to die on and it can only damage their cause but the activists just can't stand anyone saying No.

Honestly women being injured.

What the heck is this about and here we are talking about why men should not be at any point playing in women’s sport ever.

It’s like a bad dream where we are having to even be having this mad conversation

What has happened in this country wher3 this conversation is even being held 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Totally agree - I cannot believe in the 21st century that saying “no men cannot change sex to become women because it’s biologically impossible” is controversial and that we’re having to actually argue over our rights to the single sex spaces we fought so hard for and a straight “no” isn’t considered sufficient because hurty feels 🤦🏻‍♀️

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I don't think that transmen should be allowed to play in male teams either.

Serious injuries happen in rugby, and the guilt a player would feel after injuring someone who is physically weaker, slower and smaller because of their sex could also be life altering.

I'd not allow my teenage son to play against female people, no matter how convinced that female person was that they'd manage. It's unsafe and the potential consequences to my son are unacceptable.

Sometimes, people have to be protected from themselves.

If Stonewall have their way, your son wouldn’t know if he was playing against a transman or not, and womens teams wouldn’t know if they were playing against transwomen as this info would be —secret— private.

Having the read submissions from all the stakeholders at the World Rugby review Gendered Intelligence’s contribution stood out as the only one that had nothing concrete in it. It was all about the feelings.

Also the photos from that day clearly highlighted the problem - the tallest person in the group was a male ex-women’s rugby player from Canada.

Anyone with the slightest interest in this subject can go and read the submissions and see the photos. Twitter users this weekend had all that info at their disposal. It’s not surprising Stonewall got shot down.

@Nagsnovalballs

I’ve written about this before, but my team played a uk military B team and they had a trans woman playing.

2 outcomes.

1. The skilful, complex aspects of a multi-phase high-level game were eliminated as they had one tactic: shovel the ball to 12 who then steamrollered us because she had been through male puberty. It was like going back to the early days of crap female rugby.

1. More significantly, there were 5 catastrophic injuries that day relating to shoulders and knees from tackling or being tackled by the 12. 2 in particular were career ending. The TW wasn’t massively bigger (second or 3rd tallest person on pitch), but their shoulders and legs were just so dense and heavy. It was like trying to tackle moving concrete posts. Never experienced that even playing against XX chromosome Scotland A and England B team players.

Fucking hell!

@Nagsnovalballs

I’ve written about this before, but my team played a uk military B team and they had a trans woman playing.

2 outcomes.

1. The skilful, complex aspects of a multi-phase high-level game were eliminated as they had one tactic: shovel the ball to 12 who then steamrollered us because she had been through male puberty. It was like going back to the early days of crap female rugby.

1. More significantly, there were 5 catastrophic injuries that day relating to shoulders and knees from tackling or being tackled by the 12. 2 in particular were career ending. The TW wasn’t massively bigger (second or 3rd tallest person on pitch), but their shoulders and legs were just so dense and heavy. It was like trying to tackle moving concrete posts. Never experienced that even playing against XX chromosome Scotland A and England B team players.

Nagsnovaballs was there any recognition about the ‘impact’ on the game about the trans woman playing? What did the referee do? Was it part of a league? What did your team think?

I’m so angry that 5 women were injured in this way - it’s something that reasonable men wouldn’t do - they know how much stronger they are and adapt accordingly not to hurt women or others who aren’t as strong. It’s disgusting.

So 2 women had their sporting careers ended- I’m sure they just wanted to play rugby too, but now they can’t because of an avoidable situation.

there were 5 catastrophic injuries that day

I am so angry reading that

So we have nadal identifying as a lady and starts playing women’s tennis

We have bolt identifying as a lady and starts sprinting in women’s sprints.

And so i5 goes on.

And this could and does happen from elite sport right down to club sport. Just change the names.

All sporting bodies and government are complicit in this.

To the point where woman’s sport is no longer woman’s sport

It’s just an all comers if you fancy a sports scholarship or a medal while trampling on girls and women’s hard work and their dreams

Cheats I call em cheats

@Nagsnovalballs
Yes I can very easily believe that sadly. A rather important, yet overlooked thing in simple anatomy, is that males will have more muscle per % of their bodyweight, as such you'll get cases as described as that number 12, where they'll have significantly more muscle attached to them than women, I just feel extremely sorry for female athletes who are having their sport impacted by this.

Student we all know the bodies of men and the bodies of women

Why the fuck are we even having to defend that fact that men in whatever sport should not be taking part in women’s sport.

It’s really as simple as that.
Why the fuck ar3 we having to defend this Grrrrrrrrr

Also Joe Rogan who is one of the main commentators for the MMA competitions really lays put what the differences are between male and female athletes in relation to trans, sure many of you would find it interesting.

Nagsnovalballs

Absolutely appalling. This is so mad.

I'm sorry but rugby is dangerous enough on
All-female teams. Add a burly TiM in there whos gone through male puberty and has more muscle mass and bone density then you're just asking for trouble.

@littlbrowndog
Yes it is getting silly, I suspect much of it is down to the almost religious intensity with which fairness and equality has been taught in schools in recent years (this needed doing to a certain extent absolutely, but I think many folks would find it a tad suffocating how much its pushed). As a consequence of this, I think that the feelings of the individual have been elevated waaaaay beyond what is healthy for them to be treated like, and so you get younger people in their 20s, as I am, completely unable to tolerate any dissent on things, of they are 'offensive'.