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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Caitlin Moran's new book - feminism is for women and men.

184 replies

irishfeminist · 21/08/2020 07:22

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/caitlin-morans-more-than-a-woman-from-life-lessons-to-sex-advice-2pmn3d2kf

Bet you can't wait for this.

"But life for men, in the past 120 years, has remained almost exactly the same – save for the fact that men now don’t, generally, wear top hats. Or cummerbunds. Modern men have problems, too – suicide is the largest cause of death for men under 50; divorcing men tend not to get primary custody of their children; and I’ve lost count of the number of men who have said, if a child needed help in a playground, they would have to find a woman to offer aid: “People just presume you’re a paedophile.” There is something impossibly sad about this. Humans are programmed to want to help others. To make half our population feel that they can’t – that they are, just because of who they are, a threat – is a terrible position to put boys and men in.

I gradually realised that if feminism is “the belief in the social, political, economic and personal equality of the sexes”, then that meant it is for women and men. All of us. In 2020, my feminism has become unisex, and the chapters about men are some of the ones I’m most excited about."

OP posts:
SheeshSheesh · 24/08/2020 12:46

Hawarthia I had not heard of her daughter’s musical intentions - what’s her name?

Haworthia · 24/08/2020 13:29

@SheeshSheesh She goes by Eaves Wilder. Not many 16 year olds manage to get NME coverage, airplay on 6Music (Lauren Laverne is mum’s bestie after all) and get their song produced by Stephen Street.

www.nme.com/blogs/nme-radar/whats-your-band-called-mate-get-to-know-eaves-wilder-radar-2710316

www.thelineofbestfit.com/new-music/song-of-the-day/eaves-wilder-wont-you-be-happy-euphoric-post-lockdown-guitar-anthem

I’m sure she’s a great girl and talented (I haven’t heard her music) but the fucking nepotism...

stumbledin · 24/08/2020 14:01

I think we should all resolve never ever to respond to, acknowledge, discuss, given any additional publicity to the women that men choose.

Media feminism is about controlling who can have a voice.

Dont let them win by responding to it.

CM has never been and is not a feminist. She is a convenient tool of the patriarchy.

Please ignore.

Baggarsbelief · 24/08/2020 14:24

Just followed those links haworthia You can’t take away the fact that she’s got a very good, catchy song there. Maybe elevated from your average home bedroom production by Stephen Street producing it (if you’ve the contacts why not)

Unsurprisingly no mention of the family connections but the house she’s cavorting outside and on the roof of screams “minted parents!!’ Some good feminist principles quoted in her interview - she’s her mother’s daughter for sure. Cites Justin Frischman and Chrissie Hynde as her idols.) If I was her mother I’d be very proud.

Sorry have completely diverted the thread there Smile

JoysOfString · 24/08/2020 14:35

stumbledin but discussing that seems like a good idea - the fact that lite/men-centred/"guilty" feminism is what gets promoted, and the role that plays?

stumbledin · 24/08/2020 14:47

JoysofString - you are probably right (a bit grumpy today) and I suppose I am thinking more of being proactive. ie boycott what men tell us we should do / be interested in.

And discuss what we want to do.

Dont even waste energy and thought in arguing against, clogging your brain up with what is just published for that reason. ie to be a red herring and distract us!

Annasgirl · 24/08/2020 15:20

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Anyone who argues feminism is about men has lost sight of the point and actual meaning of feminism. Arguing for equality is fine and a legitimate position. Why, then, dress dress it up in a label which doesn't fit it?

As for toxic masculinity and suicide being the main killer of UK males under 45, these are serious issues which rightly should be of concern to men and women alike. They urgently need addressing. But not within the parameters of feminism, which relates to a different demographic and might not even be in the interests of those primarily affected (men). If it's a case of redressing a social ill or the neglect of funding and resources for supporting those in distress, then why not do so under the banner of mental health (which God knows, needs all the support it can get)?

'Feminism' would be pretty much meaningless in this context, unless, yet again, it's assumed that everyone else's problems are laid at the door of women alone to resolve. It's internalized misogyny driving that sort of assumption, certainly not 'feminism'.

This 100%
LittleBearPad · 29/08/2020 18:17

[quote Haworthia]@SheeshSheesh She goes by Eaves Wilder. Not many 16 year olds manage to get NME coverage, airplay on 6Music (Lauren Laverne is mum’s bestie after all) and get their song produced by Stephen Street.

www.nme.com/blogs/nme-radar/whats-your-band-called-mate-get-to-know-eaves-wilder-radar-2710316

www.thelineofbestfit.com/new-music/song-of-the-day/eaves-wilder-wont-you-be-happy-euphoric-post-lockdown-guitar-anthem

I’m sure she’s a great girl and talented (I haven’t heard her music) but the fucking nepotism...[/quote]
The song is very good. Yes she’s had a leg up in terms of having it produced properly but if you have contacts then it’s silly not to use them.

I’m not sure CM has pretensions to being an academic feminist. Nevertheless she’s entertaining and makes interesting points mainstream.

Her writing about her daughters eating disorder and suicide attempts was heartbreaking.

SummerSummerSummertime · 29/08/2020 22:25

This!
*
"My objection to Caitlin Moran is she's annoying and not as funny as she thinks she is."*

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