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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New show on CBBC

124 replies

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/08/2020 16:50

Trailer

.

*Uploaded on 11 Aug 2020
First Day starts 19th August on CBBC and BBC iPlayer 👉 https://bbc.in/3aePdf7

First Day is a new CBBC drama about 12-year-old transgender girl Hannah Bradford adjusts to high school at the start of a new year.

Watch more of CBBC on BBC iPlayer 👉 https://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/cbbc

For more fun, CBBC games, shows, quizzes and great makes visit http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/

#CBBC #FirstDay

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 13/08/2020 17:08

'the pilot was financed by a program to support women, the “Girls Initiative”. And launched for the “Day of the Girl”.'

Of course it was.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 13/08/2020 17:16

I think this would be good to watch potentially with my DC and have a discussion with them around expectations of behaviour and preferences between males and females, how sex and gender identity are different, what is the difference between 'feeling like a boy' and 'feeling like a girl'
i.e. nothing talking about body image, dysphoria etc.
About how it would be great to be more accepting of everyone, no matter how they liked to express, without needing to try to alter our sex characteristics.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 13/08/2020 17:17

scotsheather
Complains bitterly of not being allowed to a sleepover.

Can you unpack that just a little?

Who does not allow this child to a sleepover, and a sleepover with whom? What grounds, if any, does whoever it is cite for the prohibition, if any? Is any actual reason for a non-invitation to attend a sleepover given in the programme, as opposed to Hannah's assumption of what might be the grounds for it?

Over the years I've known of a fair few children of twelve not being invited to various sleepovers for a large variety of reasons, ranging from "having one of your friends over to stay the night at a weekend is not a sleepover, and no you may not invite eight more of your friends as well, sorry" to "I don't know this child you want to invite into my house, please can you introduce us properly first" to "I want to have a sleepover for w x and y, but I know z will want to come too and kick up a fuss about not being included and I don't really like her, please can you say no mummy?"

Smurftastic · 13/08/2020 17:18

Great points @Dianas

Clymene · 13/08/2020 17:29

"It is now acknowledged, for instance, that children's GD/GV persists after puberty in only 10–30 per cent of all cases; when it does not, the children are referred to as ‘desisters’"

So, no I don't know trans people's minds but I do know that the evidence shows that most children desist from their gender discomfort. Supporting them through that discomfort does not mean that children of the opposite sex should be forced to share spaces with them or compete against them in situations where there is a clear physical difference between the sexes (in most schools, this is from the age of 11).

Clymene · 13/08/2020 17:31

Oh the quote at the beginning of that article is from this article:

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2444866417301101#bib0275

Clymene · 13/08/2020 17:31

Swap the first 'article' in that sentence to 'post' and it pretty much makes sense!

NiceGerbil · 13/08/2020 17:34

Why aren't trans or LGBT+ orgs sponsoring this stuff rather than using resources earmarked for girls and women?

Is the thing I really have an issue with.

OldCrone · 13/08/2020 17:41

section 28 - don't go teaching/normalising gay behaviour
2020 version - don;t go teaching/normalising about trans

Someone who is gay is sexually attracted to people of the same sex. How do you define what it means to be 'trans'?

StillRunningUpThatHill · 13/08/2020 17:43

I've just watched the "meet Evie" YouTube video. Evie is the transgirl who plays Hannah. She comes across as very articulate, thoughtful - a lovely child. But she also says "we split people up into boys, girls, transgender - we don't need to do that." And you know what, Evie, if we're talking about clothes, or toys, or interests - you're absolutely right, we don't need to do that. I wonder what made Evie conclude at such a young age that she is trans? In the video she remembers her delight at getting a "girl's" bike for Christmas one year. The really awful thing is if Evie thinks she is a girl because she likes pink, or dolls, or wearing dresses, or having long hair. Why can't she do all those things in a boy's body? Because our society is so obsessed with "boy" things and "girl" things that they even make Fisher Price toys for toddlers in the bright colourful version and the pink version. Same toy, but there has to be a pink version, and of course it's for girls. Start this shit in infancy and no wonder gender non-conforming kids start to think they have the wrong bodies.

If Evie stays on this path she will end up taking drugs which could affect her fertility, increase her risk of cancer and even damage her IQ, given that we now understand that the brain needs sex hormones released at puberty to fully develop. If she has surgery, she will lose some of her flesh in order to create a "vagina" which is nothing of the kind, it's a flesh pocket which she will need to dilate with a dildo daily to ensure it stays open, which will not lubricate naturally and which may even grow hair, depending on the body part used to create it. And if this happens in conjunction with puberty blockers, she will never have children of her own. It is also likely that she will never have an orgasm.

And there are people who are arguing that affirming this in children is the same as recognising they are gay? Really? Being gay causes this amount of physical harm, does it?

IfNotNowThen2 · 13/08/2020 17:52

(2). First Day is a new CBBC drama about 12-year-old black girl Hannah Bradford adjusts to high school at the start of a new year.

Are you seriously saying that a boy who wants to be a girl and a black girl are equivalent, or that people don't accept black girls as real girls either??
Do you honestly not see how racist that is Robin?

Black girl=female
Lesbian girl=female
fat girl=female
Muslim girl=female
autistic girl=female
"Trans"girl=male

Spot the difference Hmm

OldCrone · 13/08/2020 17:53

Try a little thought-experiment. Would the following be more acceptable:? And why?:

(1) First Day is a new CBBC drama about 12-year-old lesbian girl Hannah Bradford adjusts to high school at the start of a new year.

(2). First Day is a new CBBC drama about 12-year-old black girl Hannah Bradford adjusts to high school at the start of a new year.

(3) First Day is a new CBBC drama about 12-year-old Zoroastrian girl Hannah Bradford adjusts to high school at the start of a new year.

Lesbians are female.
Black girls are female.
Zoroastrian girls are female.
"Trans girls" are male.

You're coming across as quite homophobic and racist with your suggestion that lesbians and black girls are not female.

Quaagars · 13/08/2020 17:56

Robin has not said anywhere black girls or lesbians aren't female, talk about ridiculous twisting of words!

Clymene · 13/08/2020 17:59

Comparing black girls and lesbians to boys is what is known as a false equivalence @Quaagars

Robin is a lawyer so I'm sure is well aware of exactly why that's a rather dicey argument

Quaagars · 13/08/2020 18:16

Comparing black girls and lesbians to boys

Nowhere did she do that, though.
That's some massive word twisting you're doing there.

MrsJamin · 13/08/2020 18:27

The three "thought experiments" was making the direct comparison, how can you not see that @Quaagars? It's so very very racist and homophobic to compare black or lesbian girls to a trans girl, ie a boy! Hmm

Clymene · 13/08/2020 18:31

@Quaagars

Comparing black girls and lesbians to boys

Nowhere did she do that, though.
That's some massive word twisting you're doing there.

Robin said: 'Try a little thought-experiment. Would the following be more acceptable:? And why?'

Which is inviting a direct comparison.

What else did you think it meant? Confused

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 13/08/2020 18:49

I did wonder if we would find out that the trans girl had been exposed to limiting gender stereotypes in her life experience.

Liking a 'girl's' bike doesn't make you a girl.

I think we're falling further down the wormhole of reinforcing gender stereotypes - that liking long hair and dresses must mean you are a woman for a very crude example.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/08/2020 19:52

Zoroastrian girls are female

I agree with Robin on this. Religion is an excellent comparison.

Everyone (I hope) agrees that people should not be mocked or discriminated against because of their religion or trans status.

Where it becomes more problematic is when it becomes required for other people to also believe the same things or to act in a particular way outside of their beliefs to validate other people beliefs.

A religious girl should be protected on the basis of her religious belief. However, that does not extend to making other people act in a way to validate her beliefs. Her beliefs are hers alone and it is not possible or desirable to mandate that others must share those beliefs.

The same with a trans girl. They should not be mocked or bullied for who they are. However, others should not be forced to lie in order to validate them. A trans girl is a boy, and their beliefs, in the same way as religious beliefs, do not and should not override reality.

howard97A · 13/08/2020 20:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

midgebabe · 13/08/2020 21:07

Isn't it odd that whilst transboys outnumber transgirls, TV tends to show the transgirl ?

NeurotrashWarrior · 14/08/2020 07:33

I notice Robin has been projecting again.

OP posts:
BaronEssoStation · 14/08/2020 09:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BaronEssoStation · 14/08/2020 09:28

in

BaronEssoStation · 14/08/2020 09:29

@midgebabe

Isn't it odd that whilst transboys outnumber transgirls, TV tends to show the transgirl ?

It's like we live in a man's world innit?

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