Kamala Harris

[Xanthangum]

... has been selected as Joe Biden's running mate.

Important for all sorts of reasons I feel

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1293281838337871875?s=20

[ListeningQuietly]

The smears about Harris and Biden started a while ago
those who do not want Trump to lose will throw enough mud that some will stick
FFS American papers are questioning her Citizenship and involvement in the Pizzagate conspiracy.
Mrs Clinton was severely damaged by the conspiracy peddlers
I am very very concerned
that the AltRight and the conspiracy theorists will discourage people from voting for Biden / Harris
on the basis of misinterpretation of trivial comments on what to most people are very very fringe issues

Deal with the big issues
and the lesser ones will fall into place
eg acceptance of scientific evidence on climate change will impact on understandings of chromosomes

[merrymouse]

America's democracy is one of the weakest of the lot
- gerrymandering
- racist voter suppression
- exclusion of the poor
- incredibly low turnouts

Agree. A country where voter turn out is so low is very much not the greatest democracy on earth.

Another issue is the amount of money it takes to run for political office.

[merrymouse]

However, I think there is a difference between a country with obvious faults in its political system and a country with a head of state who is a corrupt autocrat and clearly most comfortable with the current leaders of Poland, Russia and Turkey.

[FireUnderTheHand]

@ListeningQuietly

Floisme
Trump is bad for women because he will be bad for EVERYBODY.
Therefore any sane registered US voter
particularly those in marginal states
will vote Biden

who can then be leaned on to understand biology

Any sane registered voter...

Okay, want to throw a hysterical in there too? I mean merrymouse added the delusional for you so...

I am not insane but I am not anybody's bitch either and the pandering and pushing to vote for creepy Biden on FWR is beyond belief. Not voting for Trump isn't enough you want me to bow to Biden or I am craaaaaazy?!?!?!?!? Oh give me a break.

Biden will do whatever the lobbyists want him to do and if replacing gender with sex is it, that will be his guidance (and is already confirmed that he will roll back Trumps roll back on Obama's Title IX guidance so we have 100% certainty that he has eaten the TWAW sandwich enough to do whatever he is told).

Was hoping we could have some type of conversation but like the TRAs, the Bidenites and the Trumpsters want to force the issue towards their side. What I will say is this - the aggression and the scare mongering from both sides is weak as fuck and shortsighted as fuck.

Those like me, looking for something different than the status quo get lost in the loud screaming of those that are pushing an agenda for their party. Whatever we do shit is fucked here I say might as well vote with my conscience rather than capitulating to the force from either side. You can feel good about putting another out-of-touch POTUS in place, I will be happy that I didn't engage in the cognitive dissonance and voted my conscience. I am done with voting for the 'lesser of the evils'.

[ListeningQuietly]

Fireunder
This is a Women's rights board.
In the US election the priorities for Women voters should be

• healthcare
• childcare
• maternity leave
• contraception
• employment law

once all of those are in place then we can worry about

• abortion rights

and after that at the very peak of the pyramid of needs comes

• trans issues

If you really think that TWAW is anywhere near the top of Biden's or Trump's for that matter agenda you need to read more overseas news sites

At the moment on 3rd November its a binary choice
Trump / not Trump
after that the nuance begins

[merrymouse]

FireUnderthehand,

Yes, I said

It’s far more delusional to believe that Trump and his Republican Party supporters care about protecting women’s rights.

Which women's rights do you think Trump wants to protect?

Whatever we do shit is fucked here I say might as well vote with my conscience rather than capitulating to the force from either side

What do you think Trump believes in that aligns with your conscience?

[merrymouse]

Completely agree ListeningQuietly.

[HoneysuckIejasmine]

@ListeningQuietly

Fireunder
This is a Women's rights board.
In the US election the priorities for Women voters should be

• healthcare
• childcare
• maternity leave
• contraception
• employment law

once all of those are in place then we can worry about

• abortion rights

and after that at the very peak of the pyramid of needs comes

• trans issues

If you really think that TWAW is anywhere near the top of Biden's or Trump's for that matter agenda you need to read more overseas news sites

At the moment on 3rd November its a binary choice
Trump / not Trump
after that the nuance begins

Agreed!

[FWRLurker]

I would say put stopping violence against women And children and preventing Complete bans on abortion above maternity leave etc in that list because the lives of women are literally at stake.

[FireUnderTheHand]

@merrymouse

FireUnderthehand,

Yes, I said

It’s far more delusional to believe that Trump and his Republican Party supporters care about protecting women’s rights.

Which women's rights do you think Trump wants to protect?

Whatever we do shit is fucked here I say might as well vote with my conscience rather than capitulating to the force from either side

What do you think Trump believes in that aligns with your conscience?

Omg RTFT.

I have posted so much and said so much but you still want to put me in Trump's camp? Trump and Biden are both terrible for this country I couldn't be any clearer on that.

Trump does not have women's best interests at heart (how many times do I have to write this?!?!?). Biden does not have women's best interests at heart.

Who knows what Trump believes in? You might as well ask me what it feels like to be a man - I have no fucking idea. What I can tell you is that neither Trump or Biden stand firm on the issues I find important - but what I do see is that Trump has removed and added guidance to keep sex-based spaces sex-based.

And the 'read other sources' from ListeningQuietly, I mean really? I read everything from everywhere. Just because I don't share your perspective means I don't know wtf is going on. Infantilizing bullshit.

[merrymouse]

Healthcare, childcare and maternity pay are instrumental in fighting violence against women because they give women financial independence.

Imagine depending on your violent husband’s health insurance.

It’s difficult to put things in priority order because everything is interlinked.

[FWRLurker]

I put healthcare above the others, I agree that one goes too. You’re right about interlinking problems though

For example, fighting postmodernism is a big issue for me. It happens That the items in that list Of political relevance to women are all material in nature - therefore protecting truth and material reality also interlink here, and do happen to also impact the trans issue.

[FWRLurker]

Note though that both parties are incredibly loose with reality. Trump by far the worse of the two options. From what I can tell He might actually be a solipsist.

[ListeningQuietly]

Fireunder
nowhere have I accused you of being pro Trump.
You posted your ideal list of office holders up thread.
I found it very interesting and read up their wiki pages and links
but as somebody who supports Women's rights to abortion, contraception and maternity leave
I have rather a problem with your P and VP choices despite the fact that both are women

You said you live in Appalachia
unless you live in NC, go ahead and vote Libertarian
as it will make no difference

[FireUnderTheHand]

@ListeningQuietly

Fireunder
nowhere have I accused you of being pro Trump.
You posted your ideal list of office holders up thread.
I found it very interesting and read up their wiki pages and links
but as somebody who supports Women's rights to abortion, contraception and maternity leave
I have rather a problem with your P and VP choices despite the fact that both are women

You said you live in Appalachia
unless you live in NC, go ahead and vote Libertarian
as it will make no difference

I don't live in Appalachia, I am from Appalachia. We have family in Appalachia - without running water or electricity or healthcare or any assistance whatsoever. Life is grim but off the grid.

I will vote however I please regardless of your opinion and continued attempted direction/coercion. And neither of our votes really matter since the electoral college makes the decision regardless of what your (or my) form looks like 'cause that's how it works.

I don't care what you think of my P and VP choices. In the scope of my existence you are a non-entity as I am in yours. And they aren't my 'ideal' picks - I never said that, I understood the question to be based in the material world i.e. list of options we began with prior to primaries. My ideal picks were not contained within that list so I picked what I found best from the list (for different reasons). If you said 'ideal' in your original question I missed it; if that is the case I rescind my list.

I support women's rights to contraception, abortion, and maternity leave... again you surmise what I think based on a list of people I find better than the current choices. I also support women and girls rights to bathrooms/changing rooms/locker rooms safe from penises and those that used to wield them. Because dicks are weapons attached to bigger stronger fighting machines than I.

No you did not say I support Trump (nor did I imply you did) but the questions merrymouse asked implied that I did (as you see in the quoted text from that post).

[TheFleegleHasLanded]

@ListeningQuietly

The smears about Harris and Biden started a while ago
those who do not want Trump to lose will throw enough mud that some will stick
FFS American papers are questioning her Citizenship and involvement in the Pizzagate conspiracy.
Mrs Clinton was severely damaged by the conspiracy peddlers
I am very very concerned
that the AltRight and the conspiracy theorists will discourage people from voting for Biden / Harris
on the basis of misinterpretation of trivial comments on what to most people are very very fringe issues

Deal with the big issues
and the lesser ones will fall into place
eg acceptance of scientific evidence on climate change will impact on understandings of chromosomes

Shame the acceptance of scientific evidence on climate change has had NO impact on the understanding of chromosomes for our own Green Party...

[ListeningQuietly]

Fleegle
Shame the acceptance of scientific evidence on climate change has had NO impact on the understanding of chromosomes for our own Green Party...
Or the Libdems

But despite the ire of others on this thread
I firmly believe that Trans rights is follow topic rather than a leadone

Climate Change
Covid
Housing
Employment
Health
sort them and ^evidence based decision making" will be embedded

[FireUnderTheHand]

As Floisme said upthread, attempting to shut down the discussion with soundbites is unhelpful to me but I am not asking you to modify your behavior in any way.

I'm not on here advocating, I'm here to discuss and lament what is in front of us as Americans.

It is so horrifying and disheartening - this is not the country I thought I lived in and I already knew the history. I know what this country has done from women's oppression to child exploitation to slavery to the Trail of Tears and turning away of those fleeing the Holocaust to the Turkegee experiments to all of the other atrocities this nation has committed in the name of liberty and freedom.

In the name of liberty and freedom for men I was raised to hate myself and I still had hope. I'm hopeless but unwavering in action towards actual liberty and freedom - I want to taste that air before I die (you know what I mean).

Reality remains and I just want to talk about well the whole mess. I get where you are coming from with pushing Biden but I am not a swing voter and my convictions are unwavering in regards to him. Not delusional or insane - just wanted to speak to others that can think outside of this omnipresent binary and not feel so alone. What I learned is that even on MN - a site from across the pond - I am still forced into that 'with us or against us' corner and since I can't join either side I'm just going to sit down.

Have a good afternoon - all of you!

[ListeningQuietly]

Fireunder
Your vote is your choice.
The electoral college is as it is.
My vote will have no effect on the electoral college
but I will still vote so that I show up in the popular vote
for the person who gives the country the best chance to move forward

Once the USA grasps the importance of

• electoral inclusion
• racial inclusion
• healthcare inclusion
• childcare inclusion

then things will improve
regardless of who we vote for

[merrymouse]

I have posted so much and said so much but you still want to put me in Trump's camp?

There are only two choices for president.

[merrymouse]

What I learned is that even on MN - a site from across the pond - I am still forced into that 'with us or against us' corner and since I can't join either side I'm just going to sit down.

You will be stuck with 'with us or against us' for at least 4 more years if Trump has another term, because that one of his few clear beliefs.

[highame]

I would have said, only a month ago that it was Biden's but in reality it's seats in the Senate. If the Democrats can't win a majority then they can do very little.

We have major divisions here and in the US and we do not improve by stating Trump is an idiot etc etc. Idiots have outnumbered good leaders by a mile but we seem to have learned that if we (media, twitter etc) go all out to tarnish and diminish then 'ooh look we've made him look stupid' divides even further and we all suffer.

No one is wholly good or wholly bad but if we chose the media version then we stop thinking.

It's all a mess and I think @FireUnderTheHand had some fair points to make. We undermine ourselves if we jump to conclusions instead of reasoning things out whilst discussing.

The mess just gets messier

[merrymouse]

No one is wholly good or wholly bad but if we chose the media version then we stop thinking

You don't need any media to make a judgement about Trump. All just have to read his tweets.

There is so, so much to judge, but the thing I always go back to is the time he retweeted and therefore endorsed a known far right extremist account in the UK.

[merrymouse]

Sorry I meant to post

"You just have to read his tweets".

We are very used to saying "it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other" and "whoever wins the election, the government always gets in", and every political party claims that a win for the other side will cause the end of civilisation, but at some point you have to drop the cynicism and recognise a real danger.

[startrek90]

My only question to those who want to protest vote is: can you live with a trump administration for the foreseeable future? He has already said that he is not leaving in 2024. He has already shown you what he is prepared to do to hold power. Imagine him completely untethered. This could very well be the last election you or your children ever vote in. Can you live with that? If the answer is no then you need to vote him out. It's that simple.

Whatever happens in November will be a bloodbath. I genuinely fear for Joe Biden and his families lives right now. There have already been some worrying statements from fox news suggesting that 'something' is going to happen to him or his son.

Joe Biden is not the ideal candidate I get that but right now the US is on fire and some a quibbling over the garden hose.