"She looks like a right tramp"

[Moranne]

On our local FB group (I know!) somebody has shared a video of a couple dealing drugs outside his front garden. She appears to be weighing out a quantity.
There's been a lot of discussion about logging it with the police, how they're a well-known problem around the area etc. And then somebody has just said, ""She looks like a right tramp".

I'm so frustrated with this comment, the subtext and the message it sends. I want to respond calmly, I don't want to let it go unaddressed, but I can't find the words.

How do you think I should respond?

Lol xposts.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm just sitting here Mumsnetting and having a look through the threads I posted on yesterday, catching up.

I notice that you haven't provided any evidence that there are absolutely no regional variations in the likely meaning of the phrase 'she looks like a tramp' in the UK in the type of context the op mentions.

Poor old op I'm sorry about your thread. Plenty of posters have agreed that it's not ok to use misogynist language for any women, as it opens it up for general usage and also individual interpretation of who 'deserves' to be spoken about like that. Which goes back to judging women to be worthy or not.

It's been a while since I did a masters, I don't view posting on MN as academia so please, feel free to do your own research as I can't be bothered frankly. Make sure you ask everyone else for their links and evidence while you're at it as well lol as they are also making statements.

Lol so you are completely refusing to back up your very bold claim that there are absolutely no regional differences in the entire UK, in the way that 'she looks like a tramp' would be most likely meant.

Even though plenty of posters have said that yes, it would most likely mean how the op understood it, where they live

I don't believe it is a regional thing. I think it's possibly generational, maybe classist, definitely a US thing, maybe a misogynistic projection thing.
It's my opinion 🤷‍♀️ I don't have to back up 'bold claims' haha

'Because it isn't a regional thing.'

This is a bold claim.

And it doesn't say you believe, it is a straightforward statement.

I also note that in addition to accusing me of deep seated internal misogyny, you have called me a fucker. A bored, goady one to be precise.

Doesn't the fact you have had so many posts deleted on this thread tell you something?

Why did you decide to break the guidelines so many times when you've been here for years and so are well aware of them?

I don't understand what you're getting out of this thread or why some people saying 'x is likely to mean y round here' has wound you up so much?

To the point of calling another poster a 'fucker' (ie me).

People have different opinions on 'troll hunting' I guess. Some people make it clear they're not duped so others can judge for themselves, some just report.

'Goady fucker' is a MN term for someone who is just provoking or loves a pile-on. It's not the same as just saying, 'hey, you're a fucker!' I apologise in that case (that you didn't know and just thought I was swearing at you).

Thank you for the apology

It occurs to me that you're saying that the meaning of a word changes due to context and where is used, which is interesting.

This is the thread that keeps on giving.

Hi all. We've removed a fair few posts for troll hunting and personal attacks. Please do bear the Talk guidelines in mind when posting.
We don't have any concerns about the OP and we can see that she's not posting under other names on the thread.
Hopefully things will get back on track now.

Thank you @MichaelMumsnet

And I’ll repeat, it is actually irrelevant what first word the man used to describe the woman. It clearly wasn’t a complement. And it was clearly only aimed at one of the two people committing the same crime.

That one person was a woman. The FB commenter clearly felt very at ease denigrating a woman on an open platform and didn’t expect to be challenged.
That is sexism and misogyny 101 for those at the back.

So posting I think it's possibly generational, maybe classist, definitely a US thing, maybe a misogynistic projection thing. is irrelevant, derailing, and just goady at this point.

So basically any name called to a women is sexist or misogynistic? Isn’t that diluting both those terms? If a work employee called a women colleague lazy - would that be sexist? It’s not a complimentary name but would it really be sexist?

I’m Mancunian. Tramp is called frequently for many things describing scruffy or smelly. It’s not normally a term I’d associate with misogyny as it’s such a broad term.

‘A right..’ tends to get put in front of many things.

‘A right mess’
‘A right loud bang’

If a male called me a tramp I’d take it as he was calling me scruffy because that’s what I’ve grown up with it being used for however it’s quite clear that many people would take it as some one who is sexually promiscuous. The term obviously has a broad reach.

I don’t understand though the total need for submission off some posters when other posters have made comments about what the word means to them.

Surely we are all allowed our own sense of agency?

So basically any name called to a women is sexist or misogynistic? Isn’t that diluting both those terms? If a work employee called a women colleague lazy - would that be sexist? It’s not a complimentary name but would it really be sexist?

If it was a mixed group and only the women were called it, even though the men were lazy. Yes, it would be sexist.

@MrsTerryPratchett

So basically any name called to a women is sexist or misogynistic? Isn’t that diluting both those terms? If a work employee called a women colleague lazy - would that be sexist? It’s not a complimentary name but would it really be sexist?

If it was a mixed group and only the women were called it, even though the men were lazy. Yes, it would be sexist.

No I don’t mean all the women - I mean one women out of the group.

If she wasn’t pulling her weight and he said she was lazy? Would that be classed as a sexist comment.

If there were 1 or more men and 1 woman doing, I don't know. Getting a cab home when it's a 10 min walk. And an observer said, she's lazy. Then yes it would be sexist.

Women's actions words and intent do tend to be policed more than men.

EG smile love it might never happen. Theoretically it could be said by a man or a woman to a man or woman. In practice it's generally said by a man to a woman. Because some men feel they have a right to comment on the arrangement of the face of women they don't know.

So basically any name called to a women is sexist or misogynistic? Isn’t that diluting both those terms? If a work employee called a women colleague lazy - would that be sexist? It’s not a complimentary name but would it really be sexist?

For me, as posted, the difference is And it was clearly only aimed at one of the two people committing the same crime. That one person was a woman.

Both people were doing exactly the same thing, so why did a man only comment on the woman? And why was her appearance or assumed promiscuity even relevant to the situation?

If two colleagues where being lazy and not pulling their weight, and only the woman’s laziness was commented on, then I’d question that, yes.

If two colleagues where being lazy and not pulling their weight, and only the woman’s short shorts were commented on, which is more like the OPs situation, then yes I’d very much ask the question why, and relevance.