Breastfeeding week

[breastfeedingweek]

There are really no words

The stories should be by the mums then the fathers afterwards possibly if that's what they want to do.

Men don't have breastfeeding stories.

Devil’s advocate but they probably have some research about how much partners/fathers influence whether or not some mothers breastfeed or continue to breastfeed, and are trying to put out postive stories from fathers for that reason - in a very hamfisted way.

Those other two at least are far less high-handed. They acknowledge their role is to support, not to be the one deciding whether the woman will breastfeed or not

If the nhs want to up the breastfeeding rates they need to provide more expert support to women after birth with home visits or not being kicked out of hospital before you have established feeding.

It's probably a tiny tiny percentage of women who don't breastfeed due to their partners opinion on it.

I don't think I've ever met a man in real life who actually has any opinion on breastfeeding either way.

I don't agree that women who don't breastfeed don't just because it's difficult and there is a lack of support. That is true in some cases but I have certainly come across women who see their breasts as something to do with sex and never considered breastfeeding. They don't want to get their boobs out. I'm sure the research will back that up to. Some men are embarrassed and don't want their partners to get their boobs out in public either.

I think the last 2 accounts are better than the first one. Does sound like they are targeting men to support their wives/girlfriends in breastfeeding and to be honest I don't see a problem with this. Without my own DH being so supportive in the earliest stages I'm not sure I would have persevered with breastfeeding with our DD1 and I'm guessing most new dads have no idea how time consuming breastfeeding can be in those early weeks. My DH learnt the hard way !

The first dad just comes across as an arse.

@edgeware I think you're right.

I did the training for the breastfeeding peer support role, and the point of it is that as peers we've also experienced breastfeeding, but there's a big push to educate a wider audience.

A lot of women give up breastfeeding because they don't have the right kind of support. It's great having groups and hotlines and all that jazz but when your partner isn't on board or doesn't see the difference between formula and breast then it can be easy to second guess your own motives.

But I think the campaign they're running here is awful. It's just mansplaining.

It really needs to be qualified people, you know, with lactating breasts. What are they called? Women. Women explaining what men can do to help them get through breastfeeding, and how men can support them.

Not just men telling some cookie cutter stories about how they breastfed.

Oh, it saves money does it?

My son is six weeks old. I've been headhunted today for a job that would pay double my last similar role, in a field I love, that I meet every single requirement for. There's a rota for one week in the office, one week WFH. 37 hours a week, flexible. It would start in a couple of weeks.
While I'd hate being away from my boy, my partner's job could fit around it and we'd find a way. The extra money would be a game changer for us.

Except my son is being exclusively breastfed and I very much doubt I could take him to work in his sling and let him feed while I'm sat at a desk! Expressing that amount of milk would be another load of labour on my part and would possibly mess up my supply.

Yes, the 'choice' brigade would say it's my choice to breastfeed (as advised of course by both the WHO and the NHS) and it is, because I believe it's best for him and I'm grateful to be able to do it. As it happens, it's also good for me mentally after a failed VBAC attempt. I'm also quite keen on the fact that it lowers the risk of me getting breast and ovarian cancer. So yes, health benefits all around but at huge financial cost, actually.

And sleep? I'm lucky if I get two hours in a row and it's been that way since I was 30 weeks pregnant.

@breastfeedingweek

I think a lot of people stop breastfeeding because of their partners opinion. Or because they feel unsupported.

Someone who says "I'm so sick of breastfeeding, I'm so stressed out, I can never get laundry done, I can never wash the dishes, I can never go for a walk without a baby attached" is saying they're overwhelmed. And a lot of people stop that feeling by quitting and going to formula.

But those same women may not feel so stressed if there were more campaigns towards men saying that in order to support women and the breastfeeding rates in the UK they need to pick up more of the physical and mental load. And instead of saying "one bottle of formula won't hurt" which often leads to many more bottles of formula, they should be asking what they can do to support their partners and make breastfeeding easier.

The campaign that the NHS are running here though doesn't address those issues.

In the UK 36% of mums try breastfeeding but by 6 months only 1% of those babies are still being exclusively breastfed.

There's lots of reasons why this figure drops. Sometimes it's medically indicated that babies need additional nutrition. This might be due to the inability to breastfeed partially or exclusively (very small percentage), but a higher percentage is that most people who stop just don't feel like they had the right support at the right time.

The point is that men are supposedly more likely to listen to other men than to women. That's why it is by men for men.

Also the NHS don't find home visits by breastfeeding and infant feeding support workers, it's run by councils.

In most places the councils have cut funding which means in home and community support is limited.

It's not an NHS issue solely. Councils need to be doing more, because peer support and infant feeding specialist support is crucial to increasing numbers.

Fund*

This is greater Glasgow though, where there are HUGE inequalities and incredibly low breastfeeding rates in some areas. Think 10% at 6 weeks sort of thing. And the ads are definitely targeting some communities where breastfeeding is not the norm and men play a huge part in this.

Does the mansplaining make my teeth itch? Absolutely. But maybe mansplaining is partly what's needed when men are blocking breastfeeding.

Oh fuck off Lewis. This really pisses me off. Has anyone read the intro in Joe Wicks' new weaning book? Similar tone talking about breastfeeding. He talks about his wife's bleeding nipples etc. Surely it's her nips her business.

Doesn't it run a high risk of men insisting that their partners BF even if they don't want to, are really struggling. Tell them they must, keep going no matter what etc etc

Maybe that's what they're assuming for, pass the 'you must' message the NHS pushes onto the men to push the women on the home front.

*Also the NHS don't find home visits by breastfeeding and infant feeding support workers, it's run by councils.

In most places the councils have cut funding which means in home and community support is limited.

It's not an NHS issue solely. Councils need to be doing more, because peer support and infant feeding specialist support is crucial to increasing numbers.*

I feel it should be nhs funded though. Would happily pay more tax for it too.

There may be some point in this re getting men onboard. Grandparents too then? After all they are likely from generations where breastfeeding was rarer and done in private and not always encouraged by health professionals?

It’s breastfeeding weeks and it looks like today’s focus is on involving men, I’m sure there’s been other accounts from women, otherwise that’s just daft. I get some of the reaction to the language, but OP I’ve met various men with strong opinions on bf.

It caused various arguments between me and DH, that I was determined to bf despite overwhelming challenges, and this really impacted on him, and second time round, on my older child. We disagreed about how much bf was important, and he felt at times that I had made a unilateral decision that was not up for negotiation (he was right), but that I insisted upon his back up (also true). I can see now with distance that I was belligerent and his feelings on it were valid - at the time his desire to debate it was a source of rage and represented how he didn’t appreciate my efforts. At least some of it was about me and my wishes. Eg the points when I was utterly on my knees through fatigue, and he had to pick up the slack - he felt this was insane and it would be better just to give up and both get more rest. I and we all know it is more complicated than that, but I also know I have form for taking a really hard route because of an ‘ideal mother’ idea that I am still trying to disentangle from.

That’s a bit of a ramble and I still would be committed to bf with another child, but it will very much be an issue that is discussed and he is a part of. We would probably still disagree but both our wishes on it are important. I think this messaging is cueing men to understand that they have a role in bf and encouraging them to be supportive.

And yes in Glasgow, many of the young parents I work with, young dads and mums would be influenced by an idea that breasts are not for feeding, and to increase rates we need to target both. Rant over, thanks.

This from the NATIONAL health service. Whilst a mere marketing advertiser going by the name of Bodyform actually gets it. The NHS could learn a great deal from #wombstories.

OP points out that men don't have breastfeeding stories; a PP also says How would we know breastfeeding was a good thing to do unless a man told us?

Good points. Yet more men coming forward to mansplain to women how we should be 'womanning' properly. Because evidently we don't understand, merely being the ones with the distinction of actually having been born female

Straightforward misogyny.

Does it count as mansplaining if it's aimed at other men?

A male friend once said "she handles input, I handle output", which was a nifty way of putting it (although I'm not convinced it was quite as 50/50 as he suggested).

I agree men need to be onboard if their partner chooses to breastfeed.

Something along the lines of

Gillian's story - breastfeeding was really important to me. I wasn't prepared for how exhausting the first couple of weeks were. The baby struggled to latch and I felt I was constantly attached to the baby. I didn't have time for anything other than sitting on the couch feeding the baby. The house was a mess and I wasn't looking after myself properly. At one point I really wanted to switch to formula but wanted to give it one more week of trying first.

"Gillian's husband, David's story - my wife decided she wanted to give breastfeeding a go. After a couple of weeks she was really struggling and exhausted. I knew it was important to her to keep going so I started picking up more slack at home. She said it was really helpful when I brought her glasses of water and regular snacks as feeding the baby made her hungry and thirsty. I felt by looking after my wife I was helping to feed the baby".

^ not perfect but something like that.

There's also a complete lack of honesty about what an enormous commitment breastfeeding is. It was sold to me as this lovely wonderful thing to do, not just for baby but for me. I was so exhausted and in so much pain, I would have given up with my first had my midwife not told me flat out that unless I was used to someone clamping down hard on my nipples 24/7 it would be painful, it would be exhausting and I would get no relief as baby would rely on me for all their food. And then she said stick it out for six weeks, you can do six weeks and I promise you it does get easier after that.

I clung to those words like a lifeline. The day before those six weeks were over, I was in agony and decided to stop. I had tried and it just wasn't for me.

And then within a day or two it I realised that today was better than yesterday. And yesterday had been better than the day before. So I stuck it out until my oldest was 11 months (when I misunderstood age appropriate nursing behaviour as disinterest and weaned him).

And that six week period was still painful and difficult with my second and third, but at least I knew it would get better and that I could do it.

Maybe the powers that be think they'll put new mothers off if they tell them the truth, but not telling them the truth is why so many women are so shocked how hard nursing is at first. Many never get over that tough stage and why would you believe someone telling you it gets better if they never even told you how hard it was to begin with?

And these women tell their friends. Who then won't even try. I have such a young mum in my family and baby has turned out to have a horrendous allergy to all normal formula which would have been far easier to manage had mum decided to breastfeed. And it wasn't anything to do with boobs being sexual and it wasn't baby's father discouraging her - it was her friends' testimony of their own bad experiences. That's it. One young mother unsupported and struggling with nursing can influence the decisions of her whole friendship group.

That's what we need in Scotland. But it wasn't happening 23 years ago and it's still not happening today. Because us women cannot be trusted to choose the option that is more difficult at first but benefits our child the most.

So they tell us it's bonding and lovely and the most natural thing ever, instinctive, orgasmic (not joking). And not a word about excruciating pain, embarassment, infection, bleeding nipples, mindnumbing exhaustion after feeding 22 times in 24 hours and last but not least the toll it takes on your relationship when you're all touched out but baby's father isn't.

But yeah, let men tell us how wonderful it is. That's exactly what we need.

@Couchbettato

Also the NHS don't find home visits by breastfeeding and infant feeding support workers, it's run by councils.

In most places the councils have cut funding which means in home and community support is limited.

It's not an NHS issue solely. Councils need to be doing more, because peer support and infant feeding specialist support is crucial to increasing numbers.

There’s variation. In my authority just outside Glasgow, amazing nhs funded home visiting infant feeding service - everyone gets a visit in first 3 days and follow up support as needed, designated staff in each ward, a 24hr direct line to them. Their rates have come up in recent years as a result. Totally different in Glasgow though.

I also hate the unfounded crap about fewer colds and eczema, fuck off. That makes me irrationally annoyed.

Absolutely. There are many benefits to breastfeeding but the NHS seem intent on adding all kinds of “liquid gold” unproven shite to the list as a stick to beat non-breastfeeding mothers with. It slightly terrifies me that they’re now starting on fathers with the pressure too.